I have returned . 

Seriously though, I'm back, bigger, better badder lol.  still stuck with WinVICE too lol.

I thought it must have been one of rhe more complete and detailed games available on the vic 20 in the early 80s.

Map of the world, anti missile destruction, you name it, it had a whole lot if gaming features, very impressive for a vic 20 ;-).  It came as a cartridge so maybe it had a ram expansion in it hehe.

In some more research I noticed this page

http://members.elysium.pl/ytm/html/geos.html

The dude seems to have the code to GEOS (or something 99% close to the original GEOS source code).  And something called GEOS 2000.  Anyone know about this more than I do?

I'm posting but I sure don't want to boast warez and hacks and whatever so if this isn't a good link remove it at once, it seems to be legit enough which is why I posted it here in the first place. :-)

Hi guys,

I started an article illustrating the commodore 8 bit computer time line.  I'm including it below.  could anyone fill in the blanks I'm overlooking if any and give me your general thoughts?

Of course I want this to be factually accurate and as non biased as possible.  As in if Commodore didn't say so, I should claim so :-).

--------------------------

Commodore 8 bit Computer Timeline
by Stephane Richard (MystikShadows)

INTRODUCTION:

I don't believe anyone doesn't know about at least one of the Commodore computers that was made available. It's no secret that Commodore started with a firm determination to get their share of the 8 bit computer market. There has been so many of them that it's hard to imagine we never saw any commercial from anyone of them.

In this article I will layout the Commodore 8 bit computer time line from start to finish and I'll attempt to give some details of what the computers were capable of so sit back, grab a coffee (or your favorite drink) and let's explore the history of a company that gave us some of the greatest 8 bit computers there was.

I will present this time line in two sections since Commodore really had a double life so to speak. They attacked 2 markets at once. Therefore, the time line will be split in the PET time line and the Home Computer time line.

THE REAL COMMODORE BEGINNING:

Commodore was founded long before microcomputers existed In 1954 but an individual called Jack Tramiel. A year later, 1955, he relocates his company to Toronto. At that point Commodore became the biggest manufacturer of low cost office furniture in Canada. Commodore was to remain that biggest manufacturer for a good long time.

In the 70s, some 15 to 20 years later Commodore tried to hit the calculator and digital watch market. Back then Texas Instrument literally killed Commodore's chances of getting part of the that market. Texas Instrument was one of the major leaders in the calculator field and they weren't about to let a newcomer take a byte out of their budget.

In 1976 Commodore buys MOS Technologies (an American maker of Integrated Circuitry (IC) chips). There was an individual called Chuck Peddle that was, at the time, working on the 6502 CPU. This point in time is when it was clear that Commodore was taking a crack at the 8 bit computer market.

THE COMMODORE 8BIT PET COMPUTER TIME LINE

A year later, January 1977, Commodore shows a first prototype PET computer at the Winter Consumer Electronics Show. That was the first time Commodore publicly showed it was in the microcomputer playing field. Here's a little tidbit, Chuck Peddle, a few weeks later after the Winter Consumer Electronics Show, took the PET prototype down to Radio Shack to see if they would sell it for them. I think it's obvious the answer was no since I've never seen a PET in any Radio Shack and I wasn't far from Toronto back then either.

Three months pass and in that time Commodore was busy getting the first production PET, the PET 2001 model, ready for the market. The PET 2001 was announced in April, but it would get more recognition in June at the Summer Consumer Electronics Show where it was now official that Commodore was selling micro computers.

The PET 2001 had 4kb of RAM to begin with which later became 8kb it had a 9" screen that would display 40x25 text characters. BASIC was in ROM and it had an integrated cassette for storage.

From 1977 to 1980 Commodore created some derivatives of the PET 2001. One of the more remarkable was the PET 4032 which really started to be sold as a home computer and a school computer. Even though the 4032 had the same CPU as the 2001, improvements in electronic circuitry allowed it to operate faster than the 2001. A lot of towns had commodore pets in their school rooms which really helped commodore touch alot of different commercial venues. Until 1980 however most PET computers were just updated and newer models of the same thing.

In 1980 Commodore announced the PET 8032 The first commodore computer with an 80 column monitor. Following that model came the a few other models which boasted a bit faster circuitry, a bit more RAM in some cases. Again these were small updates to the existing technology.

Enter The SuperPET:

The SuperPET was the result of a project at the Waterloo University in Canada. Students took the top brand official PET, the 8032, and proceeded to adding ram, speed (the new 6809 at a later time), it had 96kb of RAM and had several of the Waterloo programming languages like AP/L, the Commodore BASIC 4.0, Pascal, Assembler and others. All languages were in ROM and available for usage. This quickly made the SuperPET a developer's dream come true.


The Second Generation PETs:

In 1982 Commodore would release what they called the CBM-II series of computers. These computers had a rounder more stylish style. It came in 2 series called the "B" series and the "P" series. The "P" series had many parts borrowed from the commodore 64 (the VIC-II chip, the 6581 SID chip and the likes) it ran on the improved 6502 chip called the 6509 CPU which was capable of addressing up to one meg of RAM through bank switching. Because of the VIC-II chip, the P Series ran at 1mHz which wasn't bad but wasn't as fast as the "B" series. The "P" Series had the standard BASIC 4.0 in ROM

The "B" Series had a different vocation, more of a business computer. It used the 6545 CRTC video chip which gave it an 80 column display more suitable for word processing and spreadsheet use. The "B" series ran at 2mHz which gave it even better reasons to be used as a business computer. The "B" series supported an enhanced version of BASIC 4.0 with a few more instruction for business related use.

The "B" series was introduced first since the 64 as taking care of the other side of the market. It lasted for 2 years. Indeed, the "B" series was discontinued in 1984. At that point Commodore handed all documentation and scbematics to a user group in illinois which would make a library of programs for it.


THE COMMODORE 8 BIT HOME COMPUTER TIME LINE:

The First Affordable Home Computer:

In the midst of the PET rave. Commodore wanted to hit a different side of the computer industry. They wanted computers in every home and the pricing of the PET series just wasn't going to cut it. So, in 1980 they created the VIC 1001 which was, in 1981, renamed the VIC-20 computer. The first commodore color computer. Commodore decided to hit this market quite agressively the computer came at the price of $299.00 which made it the lowest cost home computer available at the time. Not only that. They spent a fortune with the publicity around this computer too (any one remember William Shatner in that VIC-20 computer?) well that's how far they pushed the VIC-20.

The VIC-20 had 3.5kb of available ram, the screen was 22x23 characters, it had BASIC 2.0 and had graphics AND sound capabilities. It was quite a system setup for 299$ computer at the time. It was enough to make the VIC-20 a classic. To a point where commodore was producing 9000 VIC-20 units per day to supply the demand.

The "Real" Goods:

From 1981 to 1982 Commodore knew they had to take advantage of the success of the VIC-20 and create a more powerful computer. Atari was making their 600XL and 800XL computers and the VIC-20 just couldn't compete. Hence the started creating what was to become Commodore's best and most successful home computer. In January 1982 Commodore announced the Commodore 64.

The Commodore 64 was an instant success. Not only were new customers eager to buy this one but most (and I do mean most) VIC-20 users didn't hesitate to make the jump to get themselves a Commodore 64. The 64 had alot going for itself. For one thing it had a 40x25 screen, much better than the VIC-20's 22x23 screen. The processor was functioning at 1mHz which was faster than the VIC-20s. It had 64k of RAM (38KB or so available for programming). It had the no less than amazing SID (Sound Interface Device) chip which gave it remarkable sound capabilities. Basically at the time, the 64 had everything it needed to give the success it got, they would be producing 400,000 units per month for years to come. So good a success that it took more than on attempt in the course of 2 years, to discontinue the 64. The demand was that strong.

Some of the Flops:

Many derivatives of the 64 surfaced after that. The most remarkable was the SX-64 (which was first called the Executive 64. It was, for all intents and purposes a portable commodore 64 computer with a 5" monochrome display (later to be made a 5" color display) it had built in 5 1/4 floppy drive with room for a 2nd one. A great bundle. But the price was a bit too high at $1000.00. Some were sold, it wasn't a total flop, but it could have been cheaper.

Although the 64 was quite affordable at 595$ when it came out, It would seem that some new users weren't ready to pay that price. Commodore recognized that and started making some lower cost computers. One of the first was the Commodore 16, a 16kb commodore 64 (just about). There were other models like the Plus 4 wich had some integrated software like word processor, spreadsheet programs and others. These sold somewhat because of the Commodore's great reputation but wouldn't really be considered successes.

The 64's Big Brother:

In 1984, Newer Atari (and other home computers) were surfacing and although the 64 was still great at the time, Commodore realized that it needed something better to keep up.

They started on the design of Commodore's next home computer. Some prototypes like the 264 and 364 which were basically built around the Plus 4's case were created but some when they were created other issues arised that rendered them obsolete. The first of these issues were compatibility with the commodore 64 this was a priority so the designers went back to the drawing board and started designing a commodore 64 compatible machine. After a few trial and errors, a tight budget and months of hard design work. They presented the prototype that finally got adopted. In 1985, the Commodore 128 computer was officially announced. Because of the growing success of the Amiga 1000 computer which was already released, the Commodore 128 life was some what short lived with only about 300,000 units sold. It was the discontinued which essentially ended the Commodore 8 bit computer adventure, the Amiga would pave the way of the future of Commodore from then out on.


IN CONCLUSION:

As you can see here, it's quite amazing how busy Commodore was from 1977 to 1985 where the 8 bit computer era ended for them. They gave a fair try at winning the business computer, educational computer and home computer markets pretty much all at once. It's no wonder they had the success they got. From what we can see here, the success was well deserved with all the hard work and publicity that went into these computers.

The commodore 64 computer was so great at the time that even today it supports the greatest user base of any computers of the time. There are many places you can find Commodore software and hardware available. Hence the Commodore 64 computer is a true classic of the 8 bit computer era. Worked hard for and very much well deserved classic.

Stephane Richard (MystikShadows)

The website is french, however I believe any geos software is english (i don't remember a french version of GEOS,I might be wrong hehe).

http://www.planetemu.net/index.php?section=roms&dat=554

This is the link to the GEOS category itself, there's a tons of stuff there for the C64 (and other computers too).  The whole website is worth a good look.  You'll find apps, GEOS programming languages, references, etc in that list.

http://www.planetemu.net/

right here

http://project64.c64.org/misc/basic8.txt

Just posting this in case someone was looking for it ;-)

Hopefully this hasn't been posted already 1000s of times hehe.

Ok just wondering if it's me or what that's having this problem :-).

1. no overwriting of files.   I save a file as menu1 the add chances, dsave"menu1" and assuming it works I leave, come back to winvice start it up, reattach the disk image and dload "menu1 only to find it's the old version.

2. so naturally I thought I was smart here and did a dsave"menu2 this time around.  so I leave, come back, reattach the disk image but menu2 isn't there.  so um  any other vice 1.21 users out there have these same problems?  is there anything I should know about that helps avoid these things?

I'm using winvice 1.21 and my 8 drive is setup as a 1581.

This time, i'm gonna try with a classic 1541 disk image instead see what happens. then i'll try with a 1571 disk image ;-)

Hi again to all :-).

Ok, here's the deal, I can get pretty good with sound and music in BASIC 7.0 (even BASIC 2.0  as on the 64 or 64 mode on the 128).  I know though, if I wanted to make a good synthesizer program I need to learn the ASM side of things as I don't believe BASIC can respond fast enough to certain things.  Any of you happen to be fluent in one or more of the following and would happen to have time to teach me one or all of:

1. Sound definition (envelope, waveform types, filters, frequency offsets, ring modulation and the likes) in assembler?
2. doing mixed programming, such as music routines in assembler, calling them in from basic.
3. text screen programming in assembler (only if it makes for faster screen display, hence if it's worth it say compared to PRINT or CHAR).

From what I've read here and in some commodore reference, in assembler, you're better off "poking" from $D400 and up to create sounds.  This would make sound creation and synthesis very similar to the commodore 64.  Is this a right assumption?

Finally, if this has already been done by one of you, a sample program that does all this would be great :-). hehe save me some time :-).

Oh i'd like the video text routines to be fore the 80 column screen.  no graphics, just text (well petscii text ;-) )

Thanks all. :-)

P.S.: Remember i'm on winvice ;p-) so if sending samples code and such, some D64, D71 or D81 disk image files would be quite useful ;-)

Decided to do a search today to get some useful links for CP/M mode on the 128 since it's been discussed alot lately.  So, here goes, hope this is useful to some of you. :-)


Here's one that has the CP/M disks in D64 format.

CP/M System Files Overview Page
http://members.tripod.com/~rvbelzen/cpm/index.html


Here's one that has ASM source files to the latest CP/M plus pack along with good links to CP/M related things

Commodore  128 CP/M Plus
http://www.devili.iki.fi/Computers/Commodore/C128/CPM/


A link to Programmer's heaven download of Commodore 128 CP/M Memory map (summary)

Commodore 128 CP/M memory map at Programmer's heaven
http://www.programmersheaven.com/download/3446/download.aspx
Also available here: http://www.tkk.fi/Misc/cbm/docs/c128-cpm.html

antigrav's supercharging CP/M toolkits
http://web.mit.edu/randy/www/antigrav/cpm.html

Index of the C128 Club (many files, and seems good amount of CP/M related material too.
http://www.znode51.de/clubs/c128club/

FTP Pokefinder site.Search for stuff on 10 mapped servers, seems to have a whole bunch of files CP/M or otherwise.
http://ftp.pokefinder.org/

I might be blind but I can't seem to find that part of the forum, so is there private messaging?  I ask because I thought there used to be something but I can't see it for the life for me.

Also, couple days ago there used to be something on the left, a column with more information (like the top 10 posters, and others) and right now, that seems to have dissapeared as well.

Am I halucinating or was I actually right ? hehe...

Let me know.

I've been reading everything that came with the CC65 distro, I think I'm basically missing the obvious here.  Just for the sake of conversation (and my own remaining sanity lol).

Could someone that knows give me the steps to making a program (a simple hello world program would probably do) in CC65 and the steps to compiling it and executing it?  Remember I use WinVICE :-).

Seems I'm lost somewhere between the coding and the prg execution ;-).  And I can't seem to find anything to make smoke signals lol.

Ain't I just full of myself? lol

Actually I have a very valid reason to have been gone this long, two of them.

The first, my  computer's motherboard fried itself and its CPU a couple months ago. This was followed by the next reason which is a combination of a semi unexpected move and a very slow (or very busy, but I think very show fits the bill better lol) ISP Provider who took his sweet ole time getting me back online.

So well now, today (as proof and as an announcement) I can proclaim with pride that I am back online.  (err...if it's kewl with everybody that is lol).

Great to see this place has been striving in my absence, awesome to see all the pdates and additions to the place.  

So fasten your safety belts people, I'm back in town. *cracks his knucles*..

Today (perhaps yesterday night late in my time zone) the commodore 128 Forum has reached it's first 100 members with proper2ty joining our forums.

Welcome aboard proper2ty, good to have you.  

But hey, in any forum I've seen, the first 100 members are the hardest to get, so this is a great milestone indeed.

Congrats :-)

EDITED: I missed another occasion to keep my big fat mouth shut...lol...

Sorry for the false noise guys...but hey, 94, we're getting there lol

Never mind if it's in a computer....I'm just wondering if the 6502, 6510, 8510 (whatever's in the 128 lol)...were ever, and still are (possibly) in use today in say, embedded systems of some sort?

Anyone know about this?

I know this can be, done, I've seen it done, my main question is can BASIC 7.0 do it directly or do I need ASM help?

Anyone know how to do this?  I've notced that the GRAPHICS command, if I'm in 80 column mode, and I issue a GRAPHICS 0 it switches to the 40 column display and everything else is printed there...however, once in there, if I tried to swich back to 80 column and shift everything there using GRAPHICS 5 it doesn't print things there, but rather, prints it still on the 80 column display.  Could someone with a 128 (and hopefully two monitors or a setup to test this) give this code a try and let me know what happens?

100 GRAPHICS 0
110 COLOR 5, 8
120 SCNCLR 0
130 PRINT "THIS IS A TEST"
140 GRAPHICS 5
150 COLOR 5, 2
160 SCNCLR 5
170 PRINT "THIS SHOULD BE ON THE 80 COLUMN DISPLAY"
Thanks all, I'm just wondering :-).

ok, right now, I can't seem to find the answer to this in any reference.  basically, when setting the background color of the 80 column screen i'm wondering if on a C129 (not an emulator) if I can use any of the 16 available colors or if I only have, say the first 8 available.

Reason for aslking, I seem to have problems doing that on WinVICE and before I report it as a bug, I wanna make sure it's not normal behavior and should be indeed reported.

Thanks all. :-)

I say what seems like articles, because they seem to be select articles, some of which mention Twin Cities 128.  I though some of them were interesting so I'm putting the link here :-).

http://www.icpug.org.uk/national/archives/contents.htm

Enjoy

Basically, I don' remember where, but I do remember reading once (in a magazine probably) that though there weren't any "banks" per se in 64 mode.  that it was possible to simulate that somehow, or maybe even, with ASM, gain access to the 128's second bank.  

Back then I doubted it because I didn't know better and though there was a seperate CPU for 64 and 128 mode.  But now I tend to wonder because the 8502 is used in both modes.

So to those who happen to know, is this possible?  To gain access to some extra ram (even while sacrificing a few things in the process?

Thank you

I've been looking through mailing list archives for CC65, haven't seen any questions relating to SID development.  

So yes, if I want to program the SID chip with C, anyone have a small example to put me on the right track?  since Power C, although slow somewhat, works great, I wouldn't mind an example in Power C 125 itself. :-).  

Thank You all :-).

Basically, I lost track of things for a while back in 85, went on a different platform, so though this may seem like a stupid question ;-) I'm just wondering if there ever was a pascal compiler made for the 128?  standard USCD pascal or not, just want to know if there was one, which it was, does it still exist, where could I potentially get it, etc etc...I like languages what can I say hehe.

Thanks all :-).

I know I can change the text color with codes in print statements, for example...that works fine.  

but what about background colors?  can I do that in 80 column? if so, how?

this video features the designers of the 128 talking about all it took, a bit of history, to produce the 128

again, the title says all, as we all know C=[Character] and CTRL-[Characterrs]  how does that work in CC65?  say i wanna draw a boxed frame for example. :-).

In my GEOS related searches i've been busy with these past days, I came across this site

http://zimmers.net/geos/GEOSFAQ.html

that really have a whole lot of information on GEOS and links to other places that I think are worth mentionning.

Well I actually say alot in the title ;-).

Basically, I'm wondering if there's a C-128 sppecific spreadsheet application out there, who makes it, and if it's available anywhere.  I remember back in the 64 days there were several to choose from.  I just don't know how many of those were ported to the 128 native mode.

for example, visicalc, practicalc are two that I know about. I also believe that timeworks made one though I'm not sure of the name.

Anyone here can clue me in?

Hi everyone,

As you might know from another post here, I'm looking to learn assembly programming, now maybe today it's different, but back then, it seemed that Merlin 128 was at the top of the foodchain so to speak.

Either I don't know how to look, and/or don't know where to look...but does anyone know where I can find this?  If not, would anyone have an assembler they would recommend even more than Merlin 128 and of course, where to get it?

Thank you :-)

Well by that I mean the following scenario:

1. I have a main menu program that would present different options.
2. each of these options would bring up a different program in memory.  
3. when I exit the selected program I would like it to go back to the main menu program.


how easy is that to do in BASIC 7 ?

can I simply do something like

when a is selected I do a dload "program name": run

and at the end of that program I dload "main": run

is that possible?  is there a better way to do this?

Thanks all :-).

Since we are talking about 8502 assembler (that's what's in the 128 right?

Basically, I'm wondering if there's a one stop integrated system (asembler/compiler) available, which one would you guys recommend that is truely the best (for now, 128 only, I don't want to start GEOS coding in assembly just yet, maybe never, maybe I'll make my own GEOS ;-) ).?  as well as what reference I would need to take on this.

I found that in the downloads (not sure if it's here or elsewhere) and I'd like to know what people that use it think about it, as compared to, let's say, GeoWrite for GEOS?  is it worth it?  one think I like is of course the 80 column screen which helps for this kind of software.

I agree that GeoWrite is more visual, but how big can a geoWrite document be?  compared to a WordWriter document?

Hi all,

As wel know, GeoBASIC in GEOS 64 adds alot of commands, but leaves about 7Kb for code...I'm wondering if it's the same faith for GeoBASIC under GEOS 128. Anyone happen to know?

I mean if it gave 71 Kb that would be much better.  

Anyone that happens to know, let me know :-)....I don't know geobasic enough to remember how to check it myself.  (well if anyone knows how I can check, let me know that too ;-). hehe

Has anyone got this work on the VICE emulator (or any emulator so far for that matter)....

If so, I'd like to know which emulator and how.

I've tried with vice only so far, and well, there's unpredictable things happening....unstable, I boot with the disks in and it doesn't pick it up, or it does pick it up, gives me the main basic 8 menu, but seems to stall after...sometimes will go further some, had to predict because it doesn't work or it will, to some point, and it doesn't seem to depend on anything that I can think of.

anyone else got this problem?  if so, did you fix it?  if so, how? ;-).

Thank you

Basically, I know GEOS is still licenced, etc etc...I'm wondering about software for it though.  For example, GeoCalc (spreadsheet program) and others that were made for GEOS 64 and GEOS 128.

If there's anything available, anyone happen to know where I could get them?

Also, aside geobasic, becker basic, and geoAssembler (geo Developer)...is there any other programming languages available for GEOS like perhaps a C or a Pascal maybe that make use fo the GEOS environement?  

Again, if there's anything (freely available) where could I find out about them, and possibly get them?

Thanks all.

Hi everyone,

Wow, my commodore history starts at the very beginning of commodore (well before that, but this is my commodore history ;-) ). my first commodore computer was the Commodore PET 2001.  I was given a KIM-1 but never quite used it proficiently, just toyed with it for a while.  After that I got every commodore computer that came out since.  Pet 4032, SuperPet, CBM-2, Vic 20, C=64, SX-64, C=16, C=128, and most Amigas until the A4000.  needless to say, I've always loved commodore computers. ;-).

today, I still have a C=64 with 1541 Floppy drive and a 1702 monitor along with a few 100 games. :-).  I sure wish a whole lot I had a C=128 setup.  One day, I'll find something :-).  For now, Winvice is my friend.

Although I wasn't 1/2 bad at drawing and things.  My true passion in programming, since the Vic-20, was sound and music.  My first program was a small but usable drum machine on the Vic-20.  For those of you that wonder, I did have a 16Kb memory expander ;-).  So I had a bit of room to store some drum patterns.  basically, I would use a string value to convert characters to drum instruments (well different frequency white noise, not actual drum sounds lol but it did give a rythm). Then the C=64 arrive and I was in heaven with those "back then" high quality sounds ;-).    After I finally, after a while, memorized the 64 pokes to play with sounds, along comes the C=128 with it's Sound, Envelope, and other instructions to make my life easy. ;-) Murphy's law.

Anyway, commodore machines, especially the 128 have always been a passion of mine. So I'm very glad to have found this place.  

Hoping to talk to all of you real soon. :-).