Well I emailed the author today.  Not sure what will happen but the email didn't come back so far so it looks like the email is valid...will keep you all posted on any reply I get and when the mirroring will take place.

Man, the people at C=hacking sure have some interesting reads don't they?  This is good stuff...and so are most others I've read on the website so far.

You'd probably get an even bigger than now user base  if you do this.  but since the 128 is supposed to be 64 compatible, it kinda makes sense to have one just for the 64.  I believe. :-)

Not working for me either using firefox 2.0.0.4 I get the blank page that wiskow is getting.

Yup....:-)....I sure hope there's more, a wiki is as good as it's participants only.  But I think it would make a great commodore resource for any commodore user. :-)

I;m wondering if perhaps something like a tiki-wiki type wiki system wouldn't be best, it has forum facilities, but also a wiki where anyone can populate them with knowledge. :-).

I suggest tiki-wiki because it has wiki facilities, articles/comment (almost blog like features), forums, directories (for categorized links to other pages) you name it.  All under one hood, it would be rather easy to have it all look and feel the same under one theme and give something very useful to commodore users. :-).

My 2 cents ;-). hehe

Here's a few links (some with code) to get you started.

First some reference for most Commodore drives:
http://www.classic-games.com/commodore64/drives.html

there's probably some related references here as well:
http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/c128/

Next some same assembly routines for the 64 (should work in the c128 I would think:
 http://www.cs.tut.fi/~albert/Dev/burst/

The article from c-hacking (http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/chacking/c=hacking) in issue 3 has a section devoting to bursting your 128  specifically, here:
http://www.ffd2.com/fridge/chacking/c=hacking3.txt

This should be good to get you going :-)  

Hope it helps.

Ahh, there's a detail I didn't know about.  I knew they were pressed by time, but I didn't know the complete reason other than atari had there XE series that would hit big at the time at CES.

Thanks for the info, I'll update the article with this new information.

LOL @ By appointment only.  

Dr Lance, when is your nearest availability? ;-). hehe

In some more research I noticed this page

http://members.elysium.pl/ytm/html/geos.html

The dude seems to have the code to GEOS (or something 99% close to the original GEOS source code).  And something called GEOS 2000.  Anyone know about this more than I do?

I'm posting but I sure don't want to boast warez and hacks and whatever so if this isn't a good link remove it at once, it seems to be legit enough which is why I posted it here in the first place. :-)

Very noble and nice of your wte :-).  And I should add that I like the information on your website one of the more interesting thing is the graphic booster. :-).

Hi guys,

I started an article illustrating the commodore 8 bit computer time line.  I'm including it below.  could anyone fill in the blanks I'm overlooking if any and give me your general thoughts?

Of course I want this to be factually accurate and as non biased as possible.  As in if Commodore didn't say so, I should claim so :-).

--------------------------

Commodore 8 bit Computer Timeline
by Stephane Richard (MystikShadows)

INTRODUCTION:

I don't believe anyone doesn't know about at least one of the Commodore computers that was made available. It's no secret that Commodore started with a firm determination to get their share of the 8 bit computer market. There has been so many of them that it's hard to imagine we never saw any commercial from anyone of them.

In this article I will layout the Commodore 8 bit computer time line from start to finish and I'll attempt to give some details of what the computers were capable of so sit back, grab a coffee (or your favorite drink) and let's explore the history of a company that gave us some of the greatest 8 bit computers there was.

I will present this time line in two sections since Commodore really had a double life so to speak. They attacked 2 markets at once. Therefore, the time line will be split in the PET time line and the Home Computer time line.

THE REAL COMMODORE BEGINNING:

Commodore was founded long before microcomputers existed In 1954 but an individual called Jack Tramiel. A year later, 1955, he relocates his company to Toronto. At that point Commodore became the biggest manufacturer of low cost office furniture in Canada. Commodore was to remain that biggest manufacturer for a good long time.

In the 70s, some 15 to 20 years later Commodore tried to hit the calculator and digital watch market. Back then Texas Instrument literally killed Commodore's chances of getting part of the that market. Texas Instrument was one of the major leaders in the calculator field and they weren't about to let a newcomer take a byte out of their budget.

In 1976 Commodore buys MOS Technologies (an American maker of Integrated Circuitry (IC) chips). There was an individual called Chuck Peddle that was, at the time, working on the 6502 CPU. This point in time is when it was clear that Commodore was taking a crack at the 8 bit computer market.

THE COMMODORE 8BIT PET COMPUTER TIME LINE

A year later, January 1977, Commodore shows a first prototype PET computer at the Winter Consumer Electronics Show. That was the first time Commodore publicly showed it was in the microcomputer playing field. Here's a little tidbit, Chuck Peddle, a few weeks later after the Winter Consumer Electronics Show, took the PET prototype down to Radio Shack to see if they would sell it for them. I think it's obvious the answer was no since I've never seen a PET in any Radio Shack and I wasn't far from Toronto back then either.

Three months pass and in that time Commodore was busy getting the first production PET, the PET 2001 model, ready for the market. The PET 2001 was announced in April, but it would get more recognition in June at the Summer Consumer Electronics Show where it was now official that Commodore was selling micro computers.

The PET 2001 had 4kb of RAM to begin with which later became 8kb it had a 9" screen that would display 40x25 text characters. BASIC was in ROM and it had an integrated cassette for storage.

From 1977 to 1980 Commodore created some derivatives of the PET 2001. One of the more remarkable was the PET 4032 which really started to be sold as a home computer and a school computer. Even though the 4032 had the same CPU as the 2001, improvements in electronic circuitry allowed it to operate faster than the 2001. A lot of towns had commodore pets in their school rooms which really helped commodore touch alot of different commercial venues. Until 1980 however most PET computers were just updated and newer models of the same thing.

In 1980 Commodore announced the PET 8032 The first commodore computer with an 80 column monitor. Following that model came the a few other models which boasted a bit faster circuitry, a bit more RAM in some cases. Again these were small updates to the existing technology.

Enter The SuperPET:

The SuperPET was the result of a project at the Waterloo University in Canada. Students took the top brand official PET, the 8032, and proceeded to adding ram, speed (the new 6809 at a later time), it had 96kb of RAM and had several of the Waterloo programming languages like AP/L, the Commodore BASIC 4.0, Pascal, Assembler and others. All languages were in ROM and available for usage. This quickly made the SuperPET a developer's dream come true.


The Second Generation PETs:

In 1982 Commodore would release what they called the CBM-II series of computers. These computers had a rounder more stylish style. It came in 2 series called the "B" series and the "P" series. The "P" series had many parts borrowed from the commodore 64 (the VIC-II chip, the 6581 SID chip and the likes) it ran on the improved 6502 chip called the 6509 CPU which was capable of addressing up to one meg of RAM through bank switching. Because of the VIC-II chip, the P Series ran at 1mHz which wasn't bad but wasn't as fast as the "B" series. The "P" Series had the standard BASIC 4.0 in ROM

The "B" Series had a different vocation, more of a business computer. It used the 6545 CRTC video chip which gave it an 80 column display more suitable for word processing and spreadsheet use. The "B" series ran at 2mHz which gave it even better reasons to be used as a business computer. The "B" series supported an enhanced version of BASIC 4.0 with a few more instruction for business related use.

The "B" series was introduced first since the 64 as taking care of the other side of the market. It lasted for 2 years. Indeed, the "B" series was discontinued in 1984. At that point Commodore handed all documentation and scbematics to a user group in illinois which would make a library of programs for it.


THE COMMODORE 8 BIT HOME COMPUTER TIME LINE:

The First Affordable Home Computer:

In the midst of the PET rave. Commodore wanted to hit a different side of the computer industry. They wanted computers in every home and the pricing of the PET series just wasn't going to cut it. So, in 1980 they created the VIC 1001 which was, in 1981, renamed the VIC-20 computer. The first commodore color computer. Commodore decided to hit this market quite agressively the computer came at the price of $299.00 which made it the lowest cost home computer available at the time. Not only that. They spent a fortune with the publicity around this computer too (any one remember William Shatner in that VIC-20 computer?) well that's how far they pushed the VIC-20.

The VIC-20 had 3.5kb of available ram, the screen was 22x23 characters, it had BASIC 2.0 and had graphics AND sound capabilities. It was quite a system setup for 299$ computer at the time. It was enough to make the VIC-20 a classic. To a point where commodore was producing 9000 VIC-20 units per day to supply the demand.

The "Real" Goods:

From 1981 to 1982 Commodore knew they had to take advantage of the success of the VIC-20 and create a more powerful computer. Atari was making their 600XL and 800XL computers and the VIC-20 just couldn't compete. Hence the started creating what was to become Commodore's best and most successful home computer. In January 1982 Commodore announced the Commodore 64.

The Commodore 64 was an instant success. Not only were new customers eager to buy this one but most (and I do mean most) VIC-20 users didn't hesitate to make the jump to get themselves a Commodore 64. The 64 had alot going for itself. For one thing it had a 40x25 screen, much better than the VIC-20's 22x23 screen. The processor was functioning at 1mHz which was faster than the VIC-20s. It had 64k of RAM (38KB or so available for programming). It had the no less than amazing SID (Sound Interface Device) chip which gave it remarkable sound capabilities. Basically at the time, the 64 had everything it needed to give the success it got, they would be producing 400,000 units per month for years to come. So good a success that it took more than on attempt in the course of 2 years, to discontinue the 64. The demand was that strong.

Some of the Flops:

Many derivatives of the 64 surfaced after that. The most remarkable was the SX-64 (which was first called the Executive 64. It was, for all intents and purposes a portable commodore 64 computer with a 5" monochrome display (later to be made a 5" color display) it had built in 5 1/4 floppy drive with room for a 2nd one. A great bundle. But the price was a bit too high at $1000.00. Some were sold, it wasn't a total flop, but it could have been cheaper.

Although the 64 was quite affordable at 595$ when it came out, It would seem that some new users weren't ready to pay that price. Commodore recognized that and started making some lower cost computers. One of the first was the Commodore 16, a 16kb commodore 64 (just about). There were other models like the Plus 4 wich had some integrated software like word processor, spreadsheet programs and others. These sold somewhat because of the Commodore's great reputation but wouldn't really be considered successes.

The 64's Big Brother:

In 1984, Newer Atari (and other home computers) were surfacing and although the 64 was still great at the time, Commodore realized that it needed something better to keep up.

They started on the design of Commodore's next home computer. Some prototypes like the 264 and 364 which were basically built around the Plus 4's case were created but some when they were created other issues arised that rendered them obsolete. The first of these issues were compatibility with the commodore 64 this was a priority so the designers went back to the drawing board and started designing a commodore 64 compatible machine. After a few trial and errors, a tight budget and months of hard design work. They presented the prototype that finally got adopted. In 1985, the Commodore 128 computer was officially announced. Because of the growing success of the Amiga 1000 computer which was already released, the Commodore 128 life was some what short lived with only about 300,000 units sold. It was the discontinued which essentially ended the Commodore 8 bit computer adventure, the Amiga would pave the way of the future of Commodore from then out on.


IN CONCLUSION:

As you can see here, it's quite amazing how busy Commodore was from 1977 to 1985 where the 8 bit computer era ended for them. They gave a fair try at winning the business computer, educational computer and home computer markets pretty much all at once. It's no wonder they had the success they got. From what we can see here, the success was well deserved with all the hard work and publicity that went into these computers.

The commodore 64 computer was so great at the time that even today it supports the greatest user base of any computers of the time. There are many places you can find Commodore software and hardware available. Hence the Commodore 64 computer is a true classic of the 8 bit computer era. Worked hard for and very much well deserved classic.

Stephane Richard (MystikShadows)

I think, form what I'm seeing here, at 1040 posts or so you get the title of Administrator...looking at lance's post here ;-).

I'm working towards c-64 status myself.  When I grow up I wanna be just like you nikoniko roflmao.

I think there should be a VIC-20 with 32Kb expansion category, I'd probably be there at my post count LOL.

Wow, man the timing is bad or you'd be shipping that to upstate NY,,,lol...looks like a fine machine,,.":-)  and then I'd have to add an order for that VGA support piece of hardware...lol

This sorta comes in contradiction with another saying that goes:

"When the americans when into space they spent millions and millions of dollars trying to make a pen that could write in anti gravity environments.  The Russians brought pencils.  ;-).

But yeah, what can I say, there are things I would fight to keep as well.  C-128, if I had one, they couldn't prye it off my dead fingers. ;-).

I don't know the name, but there was a 128 version of MathCad (well primitive version in comparisons) but basically it turned the 128 into a graphing programmable calculator the likes of the popular TI calculators.  give and take a few things.

man, wish I could remember the name.  anyway, formulars on the text screen graphing results (with navigation and such) on the 40 column display.

Looks like awesome work so far Moloch.  You can bet it's added to my bookmarks :-).   You got some very interesting stuff in there already.

I know of a few...good friends of mine that aren't ashamed to say it loud and proud ;-).  me well i was already into computers from the mid 70s but hey, I was still begging to get computers ;-) lol

Wow, nice and crisp as expected from an LCD ;-).  This is an awesome project :-).  Now I'll only need to buy myself a C-128 and one of those ;-)

lol yup, that's another thing I liked about it alot. :-)  let me know how it goes, and let me know if and how the creation of the crt thing goes too :-)

LOL I think I got the subtleties of that reply lol

The website is french, however I believe any geos software is english (i don't remember a french version of GEOS,I might be wrong hehe).

http://www.planetemu.net/index.php?section=roms&dat=554

This is the link to the GEOS category itself, there's a tons of stuff there for the C64 (and other computers too).  The whole website is worth a good look.  You'll find apps, GEOS programming languages, references, etc in that list.

http://www.planetemu.net/

ROFL@Major Pain in the expansion Port.  i'll have to remember that one ;-).

Let me know how that goes Golan.  It would be great if it could be done.  I used to love coding on that back when I had my 64.  They were programs for me, so it didn't matter if it worked on anyone else's PC ;-).

However, the inspiration for a S'MORE BASIC compiler project comes to mind ;-) hehe.

I don't have a cartridge image to test it...but I'd be curious to find out.

Also, as a request, anyone happen to have the S'MORE Basic cartridge they could create a crt out of?  I found just about any other cartridge to use with VICE C64 emulation, but I can't seem to find this one anywhere.  no one even seems to sell it.

It's a 64 cartridge in this case, when the 128 came out, S'MORE was dubbed BASIC 6.5 so close to  BASIC 7.0 it was ;-).   plys it gave you 61KB of ram compared to the 38 KB or so usually available.  That places this cartridge in the top list...but I can't find it anywhere.  :-(

LOL yeah that too way too often lol.