Get it here! (http://www.paytonbyrd.com/wiki/CBM+Utils+CD-ROM.ashx)
Has anyone downloaded and checked this out yet? I would like feedback and suggestions on what else to include in the next version.
Saw this when I was at work today. Just came back in to do so. I'll let you know. :)
Quote from: plbyrdHas anyone downloaded and checked this out yet? I would like feedback and suggestions on what else to include in the next version.
Not yet - when I get home this evening.
Lance
Could you post a list of what is on the CD?
I loaded it up last night just to browse through it - lots of good stuff on there. Just a couple of comments on what would improve it:
(1) Needs a table of contents. The intro document you have is very basic. A file list would be better. And not in RTF format. I suggest HTML or PDF. Or even text.
(2) Some of the programs have only perfunctory documentation, or none at all. If there are separate documents for an application, they should be included.
(3) Break out Linux and MacOS instead of lumping them both under 'Other Computers'. You'll make fewer people mad. :)
(4) Keep adding stuff. It's a very good start, but there's lots of other stuff out there. Ask for recommendations here, of course.
(5) Include cross-platform hardware instructions, like X cable construction. (If it was already on there and I missed it, sorry.)
BTW, I didn't see OpenCBM even though the GUI for it was on there. Is there some reason, or did I just miss it in my perfunctory (and admittedly quick) perusal last night?
Some suggested additions to the Windows tools (unless they're already there and I missed them): DirMaster, Tok64, FLI Converter & Hires Converter, PETCat, QLink WinVICE, Total Commander, ConGo, and C64 Edit. The CBM Scene sites also have a gazillion cross-development tools for everything from assembly to graphics to sound and more, but I'm not familiar enough with them to make any recommendations. Anyone else?
Great work! This will be a very good resource for getting newbies started, and will introduce old-timers to some interesting new tools.
1) I am thinking about some sort of index, but that's going to be a real pain to keep up-to-date. I'd probably be better off doing that on the Wiki (where you downloaded it from) and then exporting out the document for each version.
2) There's a favorites folder off the root with the link to all of the web pages these things were downloaded from.
3) To me they are the "Other Computers". :) Actually, there's only a small handful of MacOS specific tools and almost all of the Linux tools can be run on a Mac OS X machine.
4) :)
5) All of the cable stuff is easily located from the favorites.
The GUI4CBM4WIN installer I included installs the correct OpenCBM for you when you install it.
What is really needed is an offline-Wiki program. I know they exists, I'll just have to dig around until I find one I like.
Quote from: airship(3) Break out Linux and MacOS instead of lumping them both under 'Other Computers'. You'll make fewer people mad. :)
Please do. And add Linux to the supported OSs on the download page. I looked at it, saw the first line which read "This CD-ROM is a collection of various utilities for MS-DOS, Microsoft Windows, Amiga OS, and Mac OS X...", and concluded that my OS of choice wasn't supported so I wouldn't bother to download it. As luck would have it I decided to continue reading this thread and saw that Linux software is indeed included. Knowing this I will download it.
OK, the page in the link is a Wiki. Anyone who wants to add more content should just sign up for a new account on the Wiki and I'll give you access. I don't mind making this a community effort.
Actually, Payton, I make a better critic than I do a worker bee. :)
I've found a really cool offline wiki called TiddlyWiki that saves the whole kit-n-kaboodle to a single HTML file. I think this will do nicely for our purposes.
Are you thinking strictly of cross-platform tools, or would you like this to become something like the boot-from-CD Linux distros? They're meant to make it easy for a Linux True Believer to hand out a CD and say 'try it, you'll like it', with the hope that their victim can become truly enamored of Linux, and will even install to hard disk from the same CD.
In other words, this could become an evangelistic tool for us to say, "Hey, dust off that old Commodore! You can use it in conjunction with your Windows/Linux/Mac box and have lots of fun with it!"
In that event, I could see the focus as expanding from cross-platform tools to include tools for the CBM side that make the machines more up-to-date, fun, and interactive. For example, the latest graphics mode demos and editors could be included, to show them what has been discovered in the last 20 years. There are also tools out there to play back 8-bit sampled audio. And there are other new CBM-side programs that really push the envelope compared to the old-school stuff.
And don't even get me started about sharing COMMERCIAL programs that are now distributed for free. To me, that's going to appeal to an entire audience in and of itself. Of course, this CD could only include a sampling, but that would be enough to get people hooked, and we could certainly point them to more.
What do you think? Did you intend this to be a cross-platform toolkit for us 'true believers', or did you envision it as a proselytizing aid, too?
Quote from: airshipAre you thinking strictly of cross-platform tools, or would you like this to become something like the boot-from-CD Linux distros?
ACK!!!! NO!!! Blasphemy!!!
Quote from: airshipThey're meant to make it easy for a Linux True Believer to hand out a CD and say 'try it, you'll like it', with the hope that their victim can become truly enamored of Linux, and will even install to hard disk from the same CD.
For the record, I am not an advocate of GNU/Linux in any way. If you want Unix, get a flavor of BSD and don't feed the communists' culture.
Quote from: airshipIn other words, this could become an evangelistic tool for us to say, "Hey, dust off that old Commodore! You can use it in conjunction with your Windows/Linux/Mac box and have lots of fun with it!"
I don't see the need of a self-booting CD to accomplish this. I just want to be able to give people a single CD-ROM with all the cool tools on it.
Quote from: airshipIn that event, I could see the focus as expanding from cross-platform tools to include tools for the CBM side that make the machines more up-to-date, fun, and interactive. For example, the latest graphics mode demos and editors could be included, to show them what has been discovered in the last 20 years. There are also tools out there to play back 8-bit sampled audio. And there are other new CBM-side programs that really push the envelope compared to the old-school stuff.
Yes, I can agree with this and encourage it.
Quote from: airshipAnd don't even get me started about sharing COMMERCIAL programs that are now distributed for free. To me, that's going to appeal to an entire audience in and of itself. Of course, this CD could only include a sampling, but that would be enough to get people hooked, and we could certainly point them to more.
I'm not at all interested in this being a game disc. It's a tools disc.
Quote from: airshipWhat do you think? Did you intend this to be a cross-platform toolkit for us 'true believers', or did you envision it as a proselytizing aid, too?
It can be both, but the booting your computer with it idea is completely a non-starter for me.
I'm sorry you misunderstood me. I don't want it to be self-booting at all, and I never said so. I want it to be a tool LIKE the self-booting Linux distros. Something that could be used to promote the idea of bringing those old CBMs out of the closet, dusting them off, and using them again. (And I wasn't promoting Linux.)
I certainly wasn't advocating loading it up with games, either. I never mentioned games. I was advocating the idea of distributing a few commercial programs to reinforce the idea that such programs can now be found and downloaded for free. While a game or two might certainly help communicate that idea, I was thinking more along the lines of tools like a disk copier, word processor, BASIC compiler, etc.
I think we're on exactly the same page, Payton.
I'm going to go home and take a nap. I seem to having a helluva time communicating clearly today. *sigh*
Dude, I'm sorry that I took your intentions the wrong way. I hope I did not offend you as I really respect what you're doing in this community and I know that I was a pretty grumpy bear earlier when I posted this.
Quote from: plbyrdFor the record, I am not an advocate of GNU/Linux in any way. If you want Unix, get a flavor of BSD and don't feed the communists' culture.
Yes, Linus Torvalds is a well known communist, just as Mark Shuttleworth and Eric S. Raymond. And IBM, Novell, Nokia, Dell, and Red Hat are just corporate fronts for a giant communist conspiracy to take over the software world ;)
Quote from: baconQuote from: plbyrdFor the record, I am not an advocate of GNU/Linux in any way. If you want Unix, get a flavor of BSD and don't feed the communists' culture.
Yes, Linus Torvalds is a well known communist, just as Mark Shuttleworth and Eric S. Raymond. And IBM, Novell, Nokia, Dell, and Red Hat are just corporate fronts for a giant communist conspiracy to take over the software world ;)
As long as GNU/Linux is still GPL, I stand by my statement. If you want to understand my position read this: http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/visualbasic/dotnet/archives/free-as-in-libre-15019
If Communism taught us anything, it's that people are naturally lazy and unscrupulous. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" does not work, because under that system everyone will claim to have no abilities and will ask for everything. The only way it 'worked' at all was to have a Socialist state tell you what your abilities were, and what you needed. That made everyone equally poor and equally miserable. Except for the leaders, of course, who always thrive under any political system. Until the next Revolution, anyway.
I don't think most Free Software advocates advocate Communism with a capital 'C'. Maybe a little bit of the small-'c' kind. I don't know. I'm not a big fan of Communism or Socialism, myself.
Fortunately, under our system every creator is free to choose how to release what he or she creates. If Linus wants to give his work away while simultaneously ensuring that no one else can profit from it, then that's his right. If Payton wants to charge for his and have his family retain the copyrights for a hundred years (or whatever the current limit is), then he can. We can all march to whichever drummer we hear, or choose not to march at all.
But I am a bit confused, Payton: isn't your CBM Commander project free? I know it uses the BSD license. How is that different, and how does it match with your philosophy?
As I've stated before, I have no designs on any monetary gain from CBM Commander. As such, I'm totally cool with it being just a hobby and it being completely free to use and reuse. I released it under BSD because if someone does find a way to monetize it, then more power to them. My copyright has to be retained regardless which allows for correct attribution which is all I want from the project.
Quote from: plbyrdWhat is really needed is an offline-Wiki program. I know they exists, I'll just have to dig around until I find one I like.
Try WikidPad? http://www.jhorman.org/wikidPad/
Quote from: PinacoladaQuote from: plbyrdWhat is really needed is an offline-Wiki program. I know they exists, I'll just have to dig around until I find one I like.
Try WikidPad? http://www.jhorman.org/wikidPad/
I'm falling in love with TiddlyWiki. The next version of the CD-ROM will be much, much better because of it.
What's your status, Payton? Have you had any time for this project?
I was also curious as to whether you've combed through the utilities in the old online forum archives linked in this thread: http://landover.no-ip.com/128/viewtopic.php?id=1187
Lots of work, I know. :förvånad:
Nope, been out sick the last couple of weeks and just returned to work this week. I haven't had time to devote to my C= projects in a while.