I am (or am going to be sometime, hopefully soon) in the market for a good, cheap EPROM programmer. While I'd LOVE to have a PROMenade they seldom come up for sale on eBay and when they do they cost a fortune. So I guess I'll stick with one I can use with my PC.
There are many available on eBay all the time and that's the problem. Which one is 'best' for a C128 owner? I mean, you can buy one for $7 + $6 shipping from BULGARIA that sounds like it would work: 260177674404 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260177674404), but you can get one for just a bit little more from a USA shipping address that seems like it has a lot more features: ($19.95 + $9.95 shpg.): 260177101621 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260177101621).
So what's best for my purposes? One of these or something completely different? Can anyone point the way?
Oh, right, my intended uses: ROM replacements in all CBM equipment, burning ROMS for the C128 internal expansion socket, and making my own cartridges. I'd be interested in one that would also do EEPROMs, PALs, GALs, CPLDs, PICs, etc., though I suspect those features would drive the price WAY up there. (The second one above will do some of these.) But there are projects for the 64/128 that use 'em, and I'd hate to have to buy another programmer later when I found that must-do project (http://landover.no-ip.com/128/viewtopic.php?id=1255) that required me to burn a GAL.
PS Dan, if I DO get one, you'll never be left alone! :P
PPS Just how hard would it be for someone to design something like that little Bulgarian model for the User Port of the 64/128?
I have one of these : http://www.willem.org/
Very nice, lots of compatibilty with a range of devices, easy to use software ... not hugely expensive either.
Mark
Looking at the project .. I can easily flash a 27C256 or 27C512 and gift it to you (I've a pile of those here).
The GAL though .. is that programmed externally by a programmer, via the I2C ? or done via software on the Commodore side ?
Mark
Do you use it for anything but 24C series EPROMs?
Some of the flash chips they mention are compatible with the CBM stuff too, aren't they?
I've got some I2C serial EEPROMs I picked up to use with a BASIC Stamp, and it looks like it would work with those, too.
Thanks for the offer, but this is something I've really wanted to get into for (literally) decades.
Since the GAL is used for on-board memory decoding, I'm guessing you have to program it elsewhere first, not on-board.
Mainly used it for fixing Commodore gear, but have rescued a fiends motherboard with it (BIOS upgrade went wrong).
I'm slllllooooowwwwwwwlllllllyyyyyyy learning electronics and VHDL stuff (emphasis on slow), so I've an 8-bit Baby here I have to assemble and then see what I can make a CPLD do :-)
Mark
QuoteI'd be interested in one that would also do EEPROMs, PALs, GALs, CPLDs, PICs, etc., though I suspect those features would drive the price WAY up there.
Take a look at this one, 230167134416, I just bought one one. It work just fine, but you will have to have an external 5 volt supply to burn EPROMs.
Dan...
The external 5V wouldn't be a problem - I've got about 500 wall warts in a box in the garage, and just about enough 5V regulator chips to go with them!
That one would be perfect, Dan, and I realize that with all that capability it's well worth the $107 it would cost, with shipping. But it's probably out of my range for the time being. Too bad, because I'd probably never have to buy another one again.
Maybe it's time to sell some of the toys I have so I can buy some of the toys I want. :(
Note: Were you nervous at all about dealing with a Hong Kong supplier? I think I would be.
QuoteNote: Were you nervous at all about dealing with a Hong Kong supplier? I think I would be.
I haven't had any problems so far. I have bought from Hong Cong three or four times before.
I have communicated with them through EBay several times and they have responded right away each time. Better than some of the local sellers.
The manual translation in some places is kind of rough, but you can make it out alright.
I'm getting ready to order boards for the next generation of the Promenade C1. If you can wait, I'll sell my old one to you at a discount.
Dan...
OK, just got my programmer from the link that Airship posted. Is there a "Howto" article anywhere for making ROMs for the 128? I want to make a customized version of Servant and also make one for GEOS. What chips should I buy for use with the 128?
alee (http://stores.ebay.com/The-Commodore-Store_New-Cartridge-Kits_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ12736122QQftidZ2QQtZkm) on eBay has the following available: EPROMs, blank cartridges, adapters, and even a guide to creating cartridges. I know you can put the Servant and GEOS on the same chip, if you use a switch, because alee sells them preprogrammed like that sometimes. When I got my BASIC 8 ROM from them I almost got GEOS on it too, until I realized that GEOS sucks. ;)
Check out this guy (http://www.arcadecomponents.com/page/page/2251646.htm), too. He's got 'Arcade' chips (including C64 system chips) but he's also got 27C256 & 27C512 series EPROMs for $1.99/ea.
You'll also need a strong ultraviolet light source to erase them. You can pick up an 'EPROM Eraser', but a strong UV lamp or even direct sunlight on the little window will erase one eventually. Do NOT use sunscreen! :)
Nick over at 64HDD has some info on re-using Magic Desk cartridges (http://www.64hdd.com/projects/c64-proj3.html#eprom_cart) that is very interesting, as well as info on making a 28-to-24-pin adapter.
And then there's this site (http://home.ica.net/~leifb/commodore/carts/) called 'How to make your own Commodore cartridges'. Very informative, and he's got some good links at the bottom of the page.
I don't think I've seen anything specific to the C128. You can ask C128retired here on the forum, though. Dan has crammed a bunch of stuff into his internal C128 ROM.
Have fun! I'm VERY jealous that you're going down this road before I am. :(
Hmm, I'm thinking I should get a ZIF socket for my 128's ROM socket to make changing ROMs easier.
Have you seen Fotios' (Mangelore's) 8-in-one cartridge (http://www.c64net.com/fotios/fb512.php)? It lets you store 8 different programs with switch selection. I'm sure you could do something similar inside the case if you wanted to.
What, specifically, is the correct EPROM to use for 16K 128 ROM images?
I had my eye on this EPROM eraser with a batch of EPROMs, but I can't afford it anyway so here you go: 220166745515 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220166745515)
16 x 8 = 128 -> 27C128. Just multiply the number of k's you want by the 8-bit width to find the EPROM number.
Several of 'em on eBay (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=27c128), but shipping will kill you for just one. I'd suggest buying a mixed lot so you have different sizes available, like those with the EPROM eraser above, or like this one 220147771131 (http://cgi.ebay.com/40-Eprom-Lot-27C64-27C128-27C256-27C512_W0QQitemZ220147771131) which comes out to a buck apiece, shipping included.
BTW, a guy in LA is selling a DATEL EPROMMER 64 for $125: http://losangeles.kijiji.com/c-For-sale-Computer-software-EPROMMER-64-eprom-burner-for-C-64-by-Datel-W0QQAdIdZ28095594
You're going to get me divorced.
Glad to help!
I hope your bid holds on the eraser!
"But honey, just the EPROMs would have cost me at LEAST that much! I'm actually SAVING money!" I can't count the number of times I heard THAT story when a couple of big bags full of new clothes walked in the door! :D
Yeah, me too! Nobody else is allowed to bid on it! I mean it! I'll pull a Christian Lott on you guys if anyone else bids on it!
j/k
Which programmer did you buy?
Quote from: airshipBTW, a guy in LA is selling a DATEL EPROMMER 64 for $125: http://losangeles.kijiji.com/c-For-sale-Computer-software-EPROMMER-64-eprom-burner-for-C-64-by-Datel-W0QQAdIdZ28095594
Nice, I wonder if he's willing to ship it to Australia.
Quote from: plbyrdYeah, me too! Nobody else is allowed to bid on it! I mean it! I'll pull a Christian Lott on you guys if anyone else bids on it!
j/k
I actually was going to bid on that... But I don't believe in getting in a bidding war with another member of this forum. ;)
-Andrew
Aw, c'mon Andrew - there's no fighting like family infighting! :)
Quote from: wiskowI actually was going to bid on that... But I don't believe in getting in a bidding war with another member of this forum. ;)
Don't worry, it's cool. In Payton's book, capitalism is always welcome so I say bid if you want to bid.
The Willem clone with dual power.
Speaking of EPROMs and burners and such, I picked up a rather interesting auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230189523055) this evening. I think I got myself quite the bargain on this one. I saw a single Jason-Ranheim bank switching cartridge go for $40 about two weeks ago. Honestly, I have no idea what I'm going to do with this stuff.
Quote from: gklingerSpeaking of EPROMs and burners and such, I picked up a rather interesting auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230189523055)[/b] this evening. I think I got myself quite the bargain on this one. I saw a single Jason-Ranheim bank switching cartridge go for $40 about two weeks ago. Honestly, I have no idea what I'm going to do with this stuff.
Cool. Let me know if you're willing to sell one of the PPC-4 cartridges. Non-working is OK as I should be able to fix it.
Wow, that's quite a score! Well, besides the fun you can have with homebrew, you'll also have to build yourself an authentic arcade cabinet to go along with Poker88. :P I wonder if the C64 was used in any other arcade machines?
Golan, we would all unanimously declare you the AWESOMEST DUDE ON THE FORUM if you'd set a price and sell a few to your fellow loving C128 Alive! comrades. Please? :ängel:
Is there a circuit diagram for these somewhere? Would it be easy to figure out and draw?
The 'PRB-4 Bank switching cartridge with battery and 8K static CMOS RAM' sounds intriguing, too. So it's basically a Quick Brown Box?
I can't say what's going to happen with everything in that load until it arrives and I'm able to examine and test everything and make an inventory of what's there. I certainly don't need it all so I'l definitely be selling/trading/gifting the majority of it. Don't worry, I'll let everyone know when it gets here. Maybe I can provide some more detailed photos too.
P.S. The BIN on that auction should have been three times higher and he still would have sold it within 12 hours. I guess I was in the right place at the right time.
Most people have no idea what this stuff is worth. I just saw a copy of Telengard for $299.95 BIN in an eBay store!
On the other hand, there's a 512K GEORAM going unsold right now for $60 BIN + $15 shipping. That seems like a garage sale bargain to me. (Too bad I can't afford it right now.)
Then there are items like the PROMenade which regularly sell for $100, then one goes for half that last week.
You just can't figure out eBay pricing.
Quote from: airship=On the other hand, there's a 512K GEORAM going unsold right now for $60 BIN + $15 shipping.
Not anymore; someone bought it. Mark put that one up for sale because he bought another for considerably less. He and I spend a lot of time watching and talking about eBay and if one of us finds something and doesn't want it, we pass it on to the other. We're like a wrestling tag-team. :)
You know, it might be a good idea for people to make WTB (want to buy) as well as WTS (want to sell) and FA (for auction) posts to the auctions et al message board. Could circumvent eBay on a lot of deals.
Mine would be a LONG list. :)
Quote from: airshipOn the other hand, there's a 512K GEORAM going unsold right now for $60 BIN + $15 shipping. That seems like a garage sale bargain to me. (Too bad I can't afford it right now.)
According to this search (http://computers.search-completed.ebay.com/GeoRAM_Commodore_W0QQcatrefZC5QQcoactionZcompareQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfbdZ1QQfclZ3QQfisZ2QQflocZ1QQfromZR14QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ32QQfssZ0QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQnojsprZyQQpfidZ0QQsaaffZafdefaultQQsabfmtsZ0QQsacatZ74945QQsacqyopZgeQQsacurZ0QQsadisZ200QQsaobfmtsZexsifQQsargnZQ2d1QQsaslcZ0QQsaslopZ1QQsofocusZbsQQsorefinesearchZ1), that was the third time that this seller tried to sell this item. The first two times he listed it as a $70 BIN with free shipping. This last time it was listed as a $60 BIN plus $15 shipping. It doesn't say it was sold, but there was one offer, so if Golan says he sold it, then he must have accepted whatever the offer was.
Does this GEORAM cartridge work just like a standard C= REU? Or will it only work with GEOS?
-Andrew
Quote from: wiskowIt doesn't say it was sold, but there was one offer, so if Golan says he sold it, then he must have accepted whatever the offer was.
Actually, he has (or had) more than one and I don't know how many more he has. I'll ask him later. :)
QuoteDoes this GEORAM cartridge work just like a standard C= REU? Or will it only work with GEOS?
I was actually the one that spotted the cheap one and I asked him that very question. He said it only worked with GEOS and since I couldn't care less about GEOS, I passed on it and he bought it.
Geez, I'm giving up all my juicy secrets today. :)
QuoteDoes this GEORAM cartridge work just like a standard C= REU? Or will it only work with GEOS?
Here is what TC128's 500 C-128 Questions Answered has to say:
Dan...
113. What is geoRAM?
At the time we are writing 500 C-128 Questions Answered this product has just been shipped. Produced by Berkeley Softworks, it, like the 1750 has 512K of RAM and plugs into the expansion (cartridge) port on the back of the 128. It has one minor and one major difference from the Commodore REU's. The minor difference (as far as 128 owners are concerned) is that it uses low power consumption chips.
While this allows geoRAM to be used with any C-64 without the addition of a beefier powerpack, all C-128's have transformers capable of powering a 1750. The major difference is that the geoRAM product lacks the proprietary Commodore DMA controller chip and therefore will not work with any software outside the GEOS family. The lack of a DMA controller also makes the geoRAM slower in moving block of data in and out of the unit. We strongly recommend the Commodore REUs over the geoRAM product for these reasons.
Quote from: C128RETIREDQuoteDoes this GEORAM cartridge work just like a standard C= REU? Or will it only work with GEOS?
Here is what TC128's 500 C-128 Questions Answered has to say:
..........The major difference is that the geoRAM product lacks the proprietary Commodore DMA controller chip and therefore will not work with any software outside the GEOS family..........
Well, I don't agree with that statement. There are non-Geos programs that support the GeoRAM like Novaterm 9.6,
There's also geoRAM wedge.prg - Make the C128 FETCH and STASH commands to work with the geoRAM expansion
http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/geos/non-GEOS/index.html
For C64 users there's also GeoRAM drive!
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=56251
How about a C128 version of GeoRAM drive?
Is there a recommended speed for the EPROMs to be used with Commodore hardware? The seller here http://www.arcadecomponents.com/page/page/2251646.htm has EPROMs that range from 95 - 250 ns.
QuoteIs there a recommended speed for the EPROMs to be used with Commodore hardware?
Commodores run too slow, any speed EPROM will work.
Dan...
Quote from: MangeloreFor C64 users there's also GeoRAM drive!
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/release/?id=56251
How about a C128 version of GeoRAM drive?
That would be great. Does anyone know anything about that program? I wonder how well it works. I've started to think it might be nice to have a RAM disk...
You've got to get on board the 'RAM disk express', Golan. I couldn't live without my 1764, even though it's only 256K. I've also got a 1700 that's sitting here waiting to be Frankensteined into at LEAST 512k, if not a couple of megs.
BTW, I was WRONG (yes, I said it) about the $7 Bulgarian programmer I mentioned in the first post in this thread. It's for 24xxx series EEPROMs. So I'm glad you bought the other one, Payton! :sjuk:
Yeah, I went and checked out the docs before I bought it.
Just as a general forum rule, you're allowed to say "You're wrong, Mark" if you have irrefutable documentary evidence. But not otherwise. :D
I've got a 1764 here that I've never used. Maybe I should experiment with it and see what how well a RAM disk fits in with the way I work. My worry is that I'll forget to save to disk the contents of the RAM disk before I turn the compute off. Maybe I'll have to start looking for a RAMLink.
I purchased the Willem Dual Power Eprom programmer off eBay but it didn't come with an AC power supply. I was looking at the Radio Shack 3-12v 1000 mA AC-to-DC power adapter. Will this work with the Willem programmer? I wanted to check since the manual only talks about a 200 mA power adapter. Can it handle 1000 mA? It has a 7805 5V regulator and I believe these are rated up to 1 amp.
My Willem has a cable that draws power from the USB ports of the computer .. did you not get that cable with it ? Does it have the square USB connector on your Willem ? If so just get a cable from your local shop to plug into it (USB printer cables work .. square to flat)
(sorry don;t know the proper name for the USB connectors :-)
Mark
Thanks for the reply Mark. My Willem programmer has the flat USB port. So I could use a flat-to-flat USB cable but the manual suggests that the USB power supply may be insufficient for programming some chips. I did get a reply on the Willem forum that states the Radio Shack adapter I mentioned should work fine.
"Hi,
It turns out that a 200mA power source isn't sufficient for a PCB3 based design. The step-up regulator can draw more than that just to generate VPP. A safer current rating would be at least 400mA; higher for low quality adapters.
The input voltage should be VCC plus approx. 4V; 12V @1A is good.
HTH,
Dennis "
Well, I bit the bullet. I bought this 'Willem' EPROM Programmer on eBay:
[ebay]360088156968[/ebay]
I hope it works. Now to pick up some 27C's and set them in the sun (if we ever get any) for a couple of days.
I've got some I2C Serial EEPROMs I can practice on (for my BASIC Stamp 2) in the meantime.
Woo-Hoo!
Edit: Just added this EPROM eraser, too. Might as well go nuts, right?
[ebay] 140180235676[/ebay]
I'm still looking for a nice assortment of 27C EPROMs.
My wife finally gave up on trying to guess what I'm doing with all this stuff !
I bought a Willem V5.0 programmer and got it yesterday.
Also got a 25M-25F cable and a RadioShack 'Universal AC Adaptor' goes from 1.5 to 12 V @ 300MA. Seems to work pretty good - should have gotten the 1000 MA , but they were out.
Hint - be sure to set and check - and recheck the jumper settings. My version of the board didn't quite match up with the manual.
After looking at the manual about 5 times, i was able to read the binary file from my servant chip.
Then i made the mistake of comparing it to one of the bin files on the PD sites (maybe even this one!). the code was way different. . . what a fun hobby!!
Anyway, i bought some chips from arcadecomponents.com and we will see what happens next. I though the prices and shipping was pretty good - and they have LOTS of commodore chips.
Received my eraser, programmer, and 25 2764s yesterday. Erased all the EPROMs, hooked up the programmer and got a 'Hardware Error' message.
So now comes the troubleshooting. I've got 25 27256s and 30 27128s coming. Guess I've gone a little nuts, considering I don't even have a working programmer yet. :-[