Is there an adapter to convert the 128's 80 column output to VGA? I found a site for something called the C= VGA Adapter (http://www.commodorescene.servebbs.org/vga.html), but since the page hasn't been updated more than a year after they took preorders, I'm assuming it never materialized. (Hope those people got their money back if it was cancelled.)
After more than a decade suffering without a 128, I'd like to buy one again this year, but I always have bad luck when any sort of monitor is shipped to me. No matter how well packed, UPS or FedEx always finds a way to damage it. So if I can use a PC monitor, at least until I can find a local source for a Commodore model, that would be a huge plus.
I suppose this is also an option:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Commodore-128-to-TV-video-cable-40-80-column-mode-NEW_W0QQitemZ260074073635QQihZ016QQcategoryZ74945QQcmdZViewItem]Commodore%20128%20to%20TV%20video%20cable%2040%20&%2080%20column%20mode
I have a video capture card which supports S-Video and RCA connectors, so I could pipe the output through that cable to the card. The 80-column output would be monochrome, but I could probably stand that since I can use VICE (with my modified palette (http://landover.no-ip.com/128/viewtopic.php?id=441)) to check 80 column colors. 40 columns would be in color through the RCA outputs.
I think that link is vaporware. As far as I have read, including from comp.sys.cbm, that there really isnt anything to do RGBI to VGA for the 128. What Ive always wondered though, is if there is a means to get the RGBI through a PC's video capture card, then to the VGA monitor. It would of course require a PC in between, but it would be good for folks who couldnt get their hands on a 1084 or 1902.
Like you, it kills me that the 128 has so much trouble interfacing with modern equipment...harddrives, monitors...etc.. its kinda scary to know that the hardware is old and wont be around as time goes on. I tend to treat my 1084 with the greatest respect since the last one I had died shortly after I got it. The real 128 doesnt get alot of use because of it, and I end up just using VICE. If I could get the 128 to use the PC as a harddrive, saving my 1581, and VGA monitor, saving my 1084, Id definitely use it MUCH more frequently. lol... my poor 1571 never gets used - mainly because I dont have any 5 1/4 disks!
Since you could always use a CGA monitor for the 80 column mode, maybe the following device will do the trick?
www.converters.tv/products/converters/rgb_converters/41.html
Hmm, the spec sheet lists RGB Analog as Input signals... I think the RGBI output from the C128 is digital so maybe it won't work.
Quote from: xlar54What Ive always wondered though, is if there is a means to get the RGBI through a PC's video capture card, then to the VGA monitor. It would of course require a PC in between, but it would be good for folks who couldnt get their hands on a 1084 or 1902.
Yeah, that's basically what I think that second cable I linked to above would do. It sends a monochrome 80 column signal through S-Video and color 40 columns to RCA. My capture card takes both S-Video and RCA inputs by using a little adapter that came with it, so I think for only the additional cost of the $10-$15 cable I could use a 128 with my PC. I imagine it would at least work with the normal display, though I have no idea what what happen if one made the 128 do 640x600 or something.
If I can't find a real monitor locally, I'll probably give that a try rather than pay to have a heavy 1084 (or 1902? they can also be used for the 128, right?) shipped to me.
QuoteLike you, it kills me that the 128 has so much trouble interfacing with modern equipment...harddrives, monitors...etc.. its kinda scary to know that the hardware is old and wont be around as time goes on.
I hope someone will decide the 128 is worthy of re-creation through FPGA, whether as part of the C-One project or a separate effort. FPGA opens up so many possibilities for expansion which have been difficult or impossible to achieve with the original hardware.
Quote from: MangeloreSince you could always use a CGA monitor for the 80 column mode, maybe the following device will do the trick?
www.converters.tv/products/converters/r ... rs/41.html
Hmm, the spec sheet lists RGB Analog as Input signals... I think the RGBI output from the C128 is digital so maybe it won't work.
*Sigh* Such a simple goal, yet it turns out to be so complicated to accomplish.
I've just seen an RGBI to SCART converter, and I know SCART can be easily converted to VGA, so I think that's another possible option. I would think that should make it possible to preserve the color portion of the signal, unlike the RGBI to S-Video adapter being sold on eBay.
Quote from: xlar54I think that link is vaporware. As far as I have read, including from comp.sys.cbm, that there really isnt anything to do RGBI to VGA for the 128. !
Actually, there is. I don't have the link handy, but it was posted on comp.sys.cbm some time ago. It was a commercial (or industrial) device for converting a CGA signal to VGA. No mention of being tested with the C128 and I doubt it ever will as its list price was like $500. But in theory, the device would work.
What about this - http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/cga_to_vga_converter_%28800_x_600%29_1488.html ? Considering the 128 will output to a standard CGA monitor this just might be a hackable option.
(http://landover.no-ip.com/images/ss_1488_9.jpg)
This project looks interesting...
http://www.btinternet.com/~commodorescene/vga.html
Quote from: MangeloreThis project looks interesting...
http://www.btinternet.com/~commodorescene/vga.html
Interesting - yes.
However, it appears to be vaporware
Quote from: adminWhat about this - http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/cga_to_vga_converter_%28800_x_600%29_1488.html ? Considering the 128 will output to a standard CGA monitor this just might be a hackable option.
This looks like something awesome as it could be installed in my 128DCR fairly easily. At $150 it's no more expensive than an Amiga flicker fixer and in the ballpark of the C= VGA project (which I think is a pipedream at $99).
I could even power the converter off the 128DCR's power supply. This looks like it might be the ultimate 128 mod.
Wouldn't the cheaper AUS$99 VGA 640x480 one do the job?
http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/1495.html
Or would the C128 80 column output look any better on the AUS$141 800x600 one?
http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/cga_to_vga_converter_%28800_x_600%29_1488.html
Quote from: MangeloreWouldn't the cheaper AUS$99 VGA 640x480 one do the job?
http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/1495.html
Or would the C128 80 column output look any better on the AUS$141 800x600 one?
http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/cga_to_vga_converter_%28800_x_600%29_1488.html
The 640x480 one looks good because it doesn't have the added expense of the the VGA passthrough (and it would have less impact on my computer's case and probably draw less power). I do wonder, however, how either of these would react to custom timings on the VDC, such as what you can do with 640x400 and 640x600 resolutions. If the 800x600 would provide more flexibility for custom timings then that would be preferable.
It's interesting that you are quoting AUS$99 and AUS$141 as the website is showing $106 USD and $141 USD. Maybe I should get one of you Aussies to buy one and ship it to me.
Quote from: plbyrdIt's interesting that you are quoting AUS$99 and AUS$141 as the website is showing $106 USD and $141 USD. Maybe I should get one of you Aussies to buy one and ship it to me.
My apologies. I must have been half asleep when I was looking at the prices.
Hi guys,
It seems the CGA to VGA (800x600) device is manufactured in Taiwan
http://www.weiya.com.tw/products_detail.asp?le=english&fid=111&pid=118&top_fid=
The Wei-Ya model number is ACV-011. A further google search for ACV-011 listed a few other worldwide resellers like
http://8linesupply.com/product.php?productid=16690&cat=251&page=1
The price at 8linesupply.com seems more affordable than the highway group in Australia but they are out of stock.
RobertB, if you're reading this, I noticed that you're listed as having preordered the C=VGA device. Over on comp.sys.cbm there were a few mentions from October and November that someone had spoken to Allan and confirmed that the device is working and complete, but that arrangements with a distributor in Florida need to be finished before it can go on sale.
Just wondering if you've heard anything?
Quote from: nikonikoRobertB, if you're reading this, I noticed that you're listed as having preordered the C=VGA device.
Yes. I also gave extra money to fund the project.
Quote from: nikonikoOver on comp.sys.cbm there were a few mentions from October and November that someone had spoken to Allan and confirmed that the device is working and complete, but that arrangements with a distributor in Florida need to be finished before it can go on sale.
Yes, I saw that. (By the way, that info did not come from me.)
Quote from: nikonikoJust wondering if you've heard anything?
No, I have not heard anything. Of course, I could always give Allan Bairstow a phone call to find out what's happening with the C=VGA.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
Oh, don't bug him on my behalf. As long as I know it might come out eventually then I'll be happy. I hope he'll be able to work things out with his distributor.
I know the final price haven't been announced yet, but would you have a ballpark guess about the price range? Do you think the $100 AUS (maybe about $75 US) I'm going to win in the game coding competition will be enough to cover it? Or will I need to sell a kidney, too? :/
Quote from: nikonikoI know the final price haven't been announced yet, but would you have a ballpark guess about the price range?
If I remember correctly, it was supposed to be in the $40-50 US range.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
Hi guys,
Since my Commodore 1901 monitor blew up a few weeks ago and filled the house with smoke, I decided that my next project was going to be a C128 to VGA converter. The goal is to share a PC monitor with both my PC and the C128.
Finding a 40 colum to VGA converter should be easy. All that's required is an S-Video to VGA converter (available around AUS$50 on eBay.com.au) with a custom made cable, or find an LCD monitor that accepts an S-Video input. My preference is to go with the second option as there's one less device to worry about on the desk.
However, my main concern was how to get the RGBI 80 column output to display on a VGA monitor. After investigating a few options I decided to purchase and try the ACV-011 board. I received it in the mail today and after a little soldering and testing I'm happy to report that it works.
At the moment, the quality of the screen text is very similar to the output seen when using VICE. It's not perfect but does the job. If I get some free time on the weekend I'll try to run a few more tests using a couple of different monitors and playing around with the DIP switches on the board.
Cheers
Fotios
Cool! Any chance you could do a screen photo or two ?
Quote from: strandedinnzCool! Any chance you could do a screen photo or two ?
Sure thing. Not sure where to dump them though. Lance, can I place them on the ftp server somewhere? Maybe a projects folder?
Thanks for working on this! I look forward to hearing more about it.
When you have time to do further testing, I hope you'll check how it handles interlacing and other display modification. Maybe try a term program that supports more than 25 lines? And then of course, there's the almost obligatory Risen from Oblivion test... :)
Quote from: nikonikoWhen you have time to do further testing, I hope you'll check how it handles interlacing and other display modification. Maybe try a term program that supports more than 25 lines?
That would be Desterm, which can go to 50 lines.
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
Quote from: MangeloreQuote from: strandedinnzCool! Any chance you could do a screen photo or two ?
Sure thing. Not sure where to dump them though. Lance, can I place them on the ftp server somewhere? Maybe a projects folder?
Yup - feel free.
Lance
Hi guys.
Well, I've had some time to run a few tests and take a few photos using my digital camera. It wasn't easy taking a photo of the monitor screen, so my apologies if some shots are a little out of focus.
Anyway, first the good news is that most 80 colum screen modes are displayed OK to a VGA screen. However, the most serious limitation with this board is that it only supports the first 8 available colours. The reason it can not display the full 16 available colours is due to the lack of support for the Intensity pin available on the C128 RGBI output.
The screen quality of Geos 128 running on a Hitachi CM753ET CRT SVGA monitor was fantastic. Here's a closeup shot. I haven't resized the image so when you zoom in to 100% size you'll get an idea of the quality.
[img=http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/5189/geoshv8.th.jpg] (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=geoshv8.jpg)
Basic 8 worked fine. Here's a screen shot of the Basic 8 Paint program
[img=http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3226/basic8paint1wa7.th.jpg] (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=basic8paint1wa7.jpg)
Closeup of some 80 column text
[img=http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/228/text1ji0.th.jpg] (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=text1ji0.jpg)
The default screen in Desterm was displayed ok. I didn't take a shot as there was only one line of text. I'll get more shots later.
Here's a photo of the CGA to VGA converter board mounted in a small project box
[img=http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/864/board1ic0.th.jpg] (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=board1ic0.jpg)
To give you an idea of the size of the board, here's a shot with a pen on top of the box
[img=http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1130/box1au6.th.jpg] (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=box1au6.jpg)
I've just tested the Risen from Oblivion VDC demo and all screens were displayed but some lacked a few colours due to the missing last 8 colours. However, the interlaced screens looked great.
Can't wait to get an LCD monitor now... :P
Quote from: MangeloreCan't wait to get an LCD monitor now... :P
Send me the box & I'll tell you what it looks like :rodna:
Seriously though - looking good - you plan on building & selling these as a completed item ? If so, you've got your first order! (My 1081 has finally died & I'm using a Commodore 1701 at the mo - so only can do 40 columns).
Cheers,
Lance
Quote from: adminSeriously though - looking good - you plan on building & selling these as a completed item ? If so, you've got your first order! (My 1081 has finally died & I'm using a Commodore 1701 at the mo - so only can do 40 columns).
Cheers,
Lance
At this point in time it's more of a personal project. It cost me US $90 for the board so it's not that cheap. I'm still investigating options to turn it into an all-in-one solution (40 & 80 column) and possibly source it directly from the manufacturer. I'll keep you guys updated.
Cheers
Fotios
Nice case and wiring job. Looks real professional.
Quote from: MangeloreHowever, the most serious limitation with this board is that it only supports the first 8 available colours. The reason it can not display the full 16 available colours is due to the lack of support for the Intensity pin available on the C128 RGBI output.
Hi guys,
Just a quick update. As you'll notice from the above comment, the converter board I'm using is RGB to VGA and not RGBI (I for intesity) to VGA. So, I've been studying the board trying to figure out how to modify it to support the full 16 colour palette of the C128 80 column mode. I created two add on circuits. The first one didn't work :gråta: but the second one which is very simple in design seems promising. I'm now able to display all 16 colours on the screen! :skratta: However, I need to fine tune it a little. Fingers crossed...
Fotios
Some more good news.
All 16 colours are now displayed in a perfect manner on my VGA screen! :tummenupp: The solution was so simple it's laughable... My initial modification interfaced the Intensity signal directly into the RGB analog inputs of the surface mounted Analog Devices chip found on the ACV-011 board. There were a number of resistors and capacitors between the RGB TTL inputs and the analog inputs of the AD chip. While the 16 colours were all on the screen, the brightness was bleeding too much. So, I then interfaced the Intensity signal just after the first analog conversion stage with a few resistors and it worked like a charm.
I'll post a few screen shots in the near future.... Now it's time to convert the 40 column mode to VGA.
Great job, Fotios! :hurra:
Howdy,
Well, some more good news... I managed to locate a supplier who's willing to bulk sell the converter board at discounted rates. If I was to sell this as a finished product it would probably go for between US$100 and US$150. Now, I realise this is a big price to pay for hooking up the C128's 80 column video output to a VGA monitor so here's some more good news....
I just managed to hook up an Amiga 500 to a VGA monitor with excellent results. So, my plan is to offer this as a solution for both C128 and Amiga 500 users. Now, I haven't tested all possible Amiga screen modes but the few games I tested worked fine.
Two photos of Stunt Car Racer and SpeedBall 2 running on an Amiga 500 hooked up to a VGA monitor have been uploaded.
Do you think this product will be of interest to some?
Looking forward to your feedback.
Oh, here are the links to the new screenshots
http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stunt1ez5.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=speed2ko2.jpg
http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=risen1xs0.jpg
http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=risen2aa0.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=risen3vv2.jpg
Cheers
Fotios
Quote from: MangeloreDo you think this product will be of interest to some?
Fotios
I'll pre-order two - one for the 128 & one for the 1200.
cheers,
Lance
Quote from: adminQuote from: MangeloreDo you think this product will be of interest to some?
Fotios
I'll pre-order two - one for the 128 & one for the 1200.
cheers,
Lance
No worries. Let me find some time to test my A1200 first. I need to get it out of storage. I have a diagnostic program that cycles through all the A1200 screen modes. It'll be interesting to see how the hi-res interlaced screens show up. Fingers crossed...
Cheers
Fotios
Forgive me if this was mentioned and I did not see it. But does this device convert analog RGB to VGA? After all, I know the Amiga has both analog and digital RGB output.. which one are you using?
Now.. I'm still a little thrown off by this and the previous arguments being made against the device I'll be constructing in a few days (when my board arrives) Essentially this RGB converter happily lives with the sync of a C128 or an Amiga.. which I've been told are different and that is why I'm told my idea for a RGB to S-Video or Component video will not work on the C128.
Still.. it is great to see something that works besides an original Commodore or CGA monitor. $100 isn't too bad to pay considering what it costs to purchase an old monitor and have it shipped to you in once piece.
Quote from: adric22Forgive me if this was mentioned and I did not see it. But does this device convert analog RGB to VGA? After all, I know the Amiga has both analog and digital RGB output.. which one are you using?
Now.. I'm still a little thrown off by this and the previous arguments being made against the device I'll be constructing in a few days (when my board arrives) Essentially this RGB converter happily lives with the sync of a C128 or an Amiga.. which I've been told are different and that is why I'm told my idea for a RGB to S-Video or Component video will not work on the C128.
Still.. it is great to see something that works besides an original Commodore or CGA monitor. $100 isn't too bad to pay considering what it costs to purchase an old monitor and have it shipped to you in once piece.
While the board is sold as an digital RGB to VGA converter it can easily be adapted to support analog inputs. There's a number of circuits on the boards with specific tasks summarised below.
Circuit 1: Digital inputs are converted to analog
Circuit 2: Timing circuit for various H/V sync inputs selectable using dip switches
Circuit 3: Analog RGB to Flat Panel Display converter IC
Circuit 4: Scandoubler
For the C128 80 column mode I used the digital inputs and interface the intensity signal through a simple resistor diode circuit soldered directly to three spots in Circuit 1 on the board. I've added a variable trimpot to adjust the level of intensity.
For the Amiga 500, I interface the analog Amiga RGB signals directly to another three locations on the board. The digital H/V sync signals from the Amiga 500 are interfaced directly to the digital inputs of the board. This way I can use the dip switches of Circuit 2 to select optimum display output.
I tried using the Amiga digital RGB outputs but lots of colours were missing... more like an 8 colour Amiga :) It's possible that one of the digital RGB singals wasn't wired up correctly but I'm happy to use the analog ones.
I already have a circuit design for C128 80 column RGBI to composite PAL colour output. It only uses two ICs so is very cheap. The output quality is similar to that of the monochrome C128 RGBI output on pin 7. The only difference is it's colour. Sorry, no NTSC at the moment. I thought there would be more interest in VGA output than composite or S-Video for the 80 column mode.
Cheers
Fotios
Thanks to Mangelore and others for the awesome work helping to make VGA a reality on the Commodore 128!
I received my CGA-to-VGA converter board in the mail yesterday, then immediately ran out to Fry's Electronics to pick up a project box and VGA cable. I'm also using a composite-to-VGA converter for the 40-column output, so it's pretty much a total solution!
Here's a link my current setup...
http://home.comcast.net/~kkrausnick/c128-vga/c128-vga.html
Now if I can just get Mangelore to provide details for the Intensity pin hack :D, that will rock!
-DMode
Quote from: DModeThanks to Mangelore and others for the awesome work helping to make VGA a reality on the Commodore 128!
I received my CGA-to-VGA converter board in the mail yesterday, then immediately ran out to Fry's Electronics to pick up a project box and VGA cable. I'm also using a composite-to-VGA converter for the 40-column output, so it's pretty much a total solution!
Here's a link my current setup...
http://home.comcast.net/~kkrausnick/c128-vga/c128-vga.html
Now if I can just get Mangelore to provide details for the Intensity pin hack :D, that will rock!
-DMode
That's just awesome! Great to see you've also had success with this board as well.
In regards to the Intensity pin hack, there's still one issue which I won't be able to resolve. The outstanding issue has to do with the inability to display the brown colour. Instead of brown, the RGBI converter will display dark yellow. The reason for this is listed on Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_Graphics_Adapter
Here's the relevant section:
There is some confusion regarding color #6 on RGBI monitors: If one strictly follows the RGBI color model, color #6 would appear as dark yellow (#AAAA00) (see below). However, IBM chose to include additional circuitry in the 5153 color monitor to detect color #6 and lower the green component to yield a more pleasing brown-tone (#AA5500), so most "CGA compatible" monitors do the same.DMode, can you please PM me your e-mail address. I want to ask you a few questions regarding your setup and if you're able to run a few tests for me.
Cheers
Fotios
Quote from: MangeloreHowever, IBM chose to include additional circuitry in the 5153 color monitor to detect color #6 and lower the green component to yield a more pleasing brown-tone (#AA5500), so most "CGA compatible" monitors do the same.
Might be more pleasing, though it's a little odd to have all the other colors come in light-dark pairs except for yellow. If they were going to mess around like that, I could have done without bright purple myself. :P
With Mangelore's kind help, I was able to get all 16 colors displayed!
http://home.comcast.net/~kkrausnick/c128-vga/c128-vga.html
Goodbye CRTs. :)
Wow, nice and crisp as expected from an LCD ;-). This is an awesome project :-). Now I'll only need to buy myself a C-128 and one of those ;-)
In all seriousness. Put me on the pre-order list. Will send check, cash, money order, first born.
Ah man... I just spoke to the wife... you can't have cash...
:) Seriously, count me in if you're building to sell.
Man... I cant get over this. After all this time of "it'll never happen", this is huge. In my book, you guys get the Commodore Hacker of the Year award!
Hi, if anyone is interested in this converter, please drop me a PM as there's a few things you need to be aware off.
xlar54, check your PM.
Cheers
Fotios
I'm not clear on how one goes about getting one of these... :(
Quote from: gklingerI'm not clear on how one goes about getting one of these... :(
Howdy,
Well, you can purchase the RGB to VGA converter board from here
http://www.converters.tv/products/cga_to_vga/77.html
But the good news is that I have a few of these and will supply them to members of this forum with the Intensity bit (RGBI) modification and DB9 plug for only US$ 81.50.
Shipping to the U.S. via normal airmail is US$7.00, but I'd recommend using registered airmail (with insurance) which costs another US$6.50. So, the total is $95.00
However, please PM me first as there's a few gotchas you need to be aware of.
You have my attention. :)
I sent you an email. Would love to work out an arrangement on buying one of these. Let me know!
X
Is there any way I can get one of these nice CGA converters here to Holland?
Hi guys,
I no longer have any converter boards left. Due to the interest generated I might try to source a few more.
Anyway, here's a quick guide on how to modify the board. As you'll discover it's not that difficult to do. The parts required are three diodes and three 680 Ohm resistors.
Solder the supplied header cable to the DB9 C128 Plug.
http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cablewz0.jpg
Locate the three variable resistors on the converter board and set each of them to 680 Ohms.
http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=topkx0.jpg
Turn the board over and locate the three pins where the Intensity hack is soldered to.
http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bottom1tw8.jpg
Solder the three diodes and resistors as per the instructions in this photo.
http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bottom2tb8.jpg
Now, there's a few issues you all need to be aware of.
- You must power up the C128 computer before powering up the converter boards.
- Interlaced screen modes are not displayed on LCD monitors (at least the ones I tested).
- Interlaced screen modes are displayed on CRT monitors but continue to flicker. While this product is a scan doubler, it's not a flicker fixer.
- Certain screen modes are displayed using a frequency of 50Hz. Some monitors will only scan down to 60Hz.
Enjoy!
Fotios
Why is it that you need the C= switched on before the converter? Does it fail to catch the sync if the C= is not on on powerup?
Quote from: Doppie1200Why is it that you need the C= switched on before the converter? Does it fail to catch the sync if the C= is not on on powerup?
I'm not 100% sure what the root cause is. However, the output image isn't displayed correctly if the C128 is powered on after the converter. I use a momentary push button switch (push=open) inline with the power source as a reset button for the converter.
I've only noticed this issue with the converter when used with a C128.
Quote from: nikonikoOver on comp.sys.cbm there were a few mentions from October and November that someone had spoken to Allan and confirmed that the device is working and complete, but that arrangements with a distributor in Florida need to be finished before it can go on sale.
Interesting, I think. You see, awhile back, I had emailed him and offered assistance. I've been heavily involved in setting up a business here on the Treasure Coast of Florida. The company has three areas of interest, so my work involves setting up three e-commerce sites. One of them is tech related. We're in beta testing but should be up and online within a few months. I never got an email back. Maybe the email got trapped in a spam filter? Think I should try emailing again?
Offer still stands... david@lauroracorp.com would be the best contact address.
-David
Quote from: MangeloreHi guys,
I no longer have any converter boards left. Due to the interest generated I might try to source a few more.
Anyway, here's a quick guide on how to modify the board. As you'll discover it's not that difficult to do. The parts required are three diodes and three 680 Ohm resistors.
This is incredible! Why aren't people going nuts over this?
Quote from: MangeloreI no longer have any converter boards left. Due to the interest generated I might try to source a few more.
Due to Charles G. of 8-Bit Designs forgetting to bring one to CommVEx v3, I am very interested in obtaining one, putting it in action, and then showing off its functionality at C= shows (possibly AmiWest 2007 in October, more likely Vintage Computer Festival 10.0 in November). Please put me on the list of people who would gladly pay for getting your modded board.
CommVEx v3 info at http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex
or http://www.commodore.ca/forum
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
Quote from: RobertBQuote from: MangeloreI no longer have any converter boards left. Due to the interest generated I might try to source a few more.
Due to Charles G. of 8-Bit Designs forgetting to bring one to CommVEx v3, I am very interested in obtaining one, putting it in action, and then showing off its functionality at C= shows (possibly AmiWest 2007 in October, more likely Vintage Computer Festival 10.0 in November). Please put me on the list of people who would gladly pay for getting your modded board.
No problem. I'll try to source another 5 of these boards. If anyone is interested please say so in this thread.
Are any of you guys interested in a very affordable C128 80 column composite output solution that's colour?
Cheers
Fotios
Quote from: MangeloreQuote from: RobertBQuote from: MangeloreI no longer have any converter boards left. Due to the interest generated I might try to source a few more.
Due to Charles G. of 8-Bit Designs forgetting to bring one to CommVEx v3, I am very interested in obtaining one, putting it in action, and then showing off its functionality at C= shows (possibly AmiWest 2007 in October, more likely Vintage Computer Festival 10.0 in November). Please put me on the list of people who would gladly pay for getting your modded board.
No problem. I'll try to source another 5 of these boards. If anyone is interested please say so in this thread.
Are any of you guys interested in a very affordable C128 80 column composite output solution that's colour?
Cheers
Fotios
I'll put my hand up!
How about instead of 80-column composite, do 80-column component (HDTV 480p)? I'm afraid that 80-column composite will look just as horrible as an Amiga on a TV.
And BTW, I'll take one of the VGA adapters, too. I'm sorry I never got around to ordering one from the first batch.
Quote from: MangeloreNo problem. I'll try to source another 5 of these boards. If anyone is interested please say so in this thread.
Most definitely put me down for one.
Quote from: MangeloreAre any of you guys interested in a very affordable C128 80 column composite output solution that's colour?
Composite? Plain old composite? Would 80 columns be readable?
Quote from: MangeloreAre any of you guys interested in a very affordable C128 80 column composite output solution that's colour?
80-column composite in color? I'm not sure... An 80-column device with S-video would be better.
CommVEx v3 info at http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex
or http://www.commodore.ca/forum
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
Quote from: plbyrdI'm afraid that 80-column composite will look just as horrible as an Amiga on a TV.
Well, at CommVEx v3 I used the Amiga RGB analog-to-composite converter (now what was its model number?) to connect the A500 to a 1702 monitor, and though it appeared dimmer on the screen, for games the conversion seemed good.
CommVEx v3 info at http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex
or http://www.commodore.ca/forum
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
Quote from: RobertBQuote from: plbyrdI'm afraid that 80-column composite will look just as horrible as an Amiga on a TV.
Well, at CommVEx v3 I used the Amiga RGB analog-to-composite converter (now what was its model number?) to connect the A500 to a 1702 monitor, and though it appeared dimmer on the screen, for games the conversion seemed good.
CommVEx v3 info at http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex
or http://www.commodore.ca/forum
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
A520 ?
(http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/a520_modulator.jpg)
Quote from: Mangelore
Are any of you guys interested in a very affordable C128 80 column composite output solution that's colour?
I'm interested in a color 80-column output for composite (S-Video if possible)!!
Assuming it works for NTSC and shipping to USA isn't too crazy.
Quote from: 11001010Composite? Plain old composite? Would 80 columns be readable?
80-column monochrome is sharp and legible on my TV (composite input) but it is still mono :(
EditOn second thought, with color it probably would be blurry since the same problem occurs to a lesser effect with 40-column hi-res graphics. So, S-Video would be prefered, but I'd try Composite if that's all there is.
Quote from: hydrophilicOn second thought, with color it probably would be blurry since the same problem occurs to a lesser effect with 40-column hi-res graphics. So, S-Video would be prefered, but I'd try Composite if that's all there is.
S-Video would be great of course. Color 80 column output on the same 20" TV I use for my 64? Awesome. But I'm a little skeptical that it would look good. Even monochrome 80 column output to a TV is pretty lousy looking with my setup.
How well does this look on a CRT monitor? I have an old 19" that would be great for this. Is there any advantage/disadvantage to using a LCD monitor opposed to an old CRT?
Also, I know the 128 has some different text modes in some software. DesTerm is one that comes to mind, where you can change the number of text rows and so on. Forgive me if I don't know the proper term. Interlaced? Anyway, my question is: will all software look OK with this converter? Or are there some things out there that won't work/will look like crap?
Quote from: RobertBQuote from: plbyrdI'm afraid that 80-column composite will look just as horrible as an Amiga on a TV.
Well, at CommVEx v3 I used the Amiga RGB analog-to-composite converter (now what was its model number?) to connect the A500 to a 1702 monitor, and though it appeared dimmer on the screen, for games the conversion seemed good.
If all you ever do is 320x200 games then it's perfectly fine, but the instant you drop to 640x200 workbench your head feels like it might explode trying to read text. Some moderns TVs make it better (I have a kick-ass Sony Wega 4:3 CRT HDTV that is by far the best composite display you'll ever see), but you can't escape the artifacts on the screen on fonts that are appropriate for an 80-column display. Bil Herd actually gave a good description of why this happens in another thread when answering questions on why the VIC-II was left alone.
Quote from: MangeloreAre any of you guys interested in a very affordable C128 80 column composite output solution that's colour?
Wow, me. Is it too late?
Has anyone tried this converter that was hacked for the NeoGeo? Looks like it should work for C128 CGA, and it's tiny:
(http://www.neobitz.com/images/mods/Neobitz-S_DIY/Kit_012.jpg)
http://www.neobitz.com/Pages/Mods/Neobitz-S_DIY.aspx
FWIW, the Neobitz works just fine on the Amiga.
Lance, you're not viewing the crisp, clear 80-column composite on your 1701? :)
Quote from: airshipLance, you're not viewing the crisp, clear 80-column composite on your 1701? :)
Bloody hell - no :) I've collected 6 108x's in the last few months, enuf to keep my various Amiga's, 8 bitters & XT's quite happy thankyou!
Has anyone tried the scan-doubler circuit on Vanessa's Commodore Projects page? It creates a true VGA output, looks relatively simple compared to some of the other stuff mentioned here and elsewhere, AND allows for all 16 colors since it takes the Intensity input. Only a schematic is up so far, and she hasn't built one, but if someone would breadboard one and try it out, then design a board if it works, that would be cool. :)
http://starbase.globalpc.net/~vanessa/hobbies/projects.html
Interesting. I wonder how easy it is to get a hold of the CY7C138 or equivalent.
It would be beyond awesome if someone did a scan doubler that took both the 40 and 80 column video and allowed them to be synced together to a 1280x480 frame side-by-side, VIC on the left, VDC on the right. Then, you could have awesome applications, games and demos on the 128 and for folks with any widescreen LCD capable of at least 1280 horizontal pixels, it would look freaking awesome.
Tagging in to follow this, I have seen many sites talk about it but none with working examples. I have one simple question
How do I get one =o)
Mangalore - can you post some screenshots of GEOS 128 on the LCD? Id like to see how it looks. Am thinking of going ahead and getting one of those boards.
Quote from: xlar54Mangalore - can you post some screenshots of GEOS 128 on the LCD? Id like to see how it looks. Am thinking of going ahead and getting one of those boards.
These converters look better when used with VGA CRT monitors. My LCD didn't scale the low resolutions that well.
Anyway, I had taken a screenshot of GEOS some time ago but it was on a VGA CRT monitor.
I must admit that GEOS looked great on the VGA monitor.
Here's the link. Once it pops up click on it again to view at full resolution.
(http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/5189/geoshv8.th.jpg) (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=geoshv8.jpg)
Ah damn... see...? Now I was hoping it would look badly so I wouldnt drool, and now my computer desk is all wet. THANKS.. :P
Hehehe, seriously, thats a terrific thing. The board is well worth it. You might want to post the images in this thread on the intensity fix to that website (if its yours?). Dunno if image shack eventually removes images or if thats a more permanent account. Id like to get one and do exactly this.
Thanks
X
Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm
From: Wolfgang Moser <wn0...@d81.de.invalid>
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 16:37:47 +0200
Local: Mon, May 12 2008 7:37 am
Subject: Fotios' C=128-RGBI-to-VGA hack with IBM-CGA color fix for brown
this is about Fotios' hack, where he used one of these CGA-to-RGB converter boards (WEI-YA ACV-011) and hacked it a bit to also accept the Intensity signal from a C128.
References are:
[ 1] http://groups.google.de/group/comp.sys.cbm/msg/68460b84a2235969
[ 2] http://groups.google.de/group/comp.sys.cbm/msg/4b85aac68ba2430d
[ 3]
http://landover.no-ip.com/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=ia67jh0h7to8d3b2vinhq308q08&topic=453.msg2259#msg2259
[ 4]
http://landover.no-ip.com/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=ia67jh0h7to8d3b2vinhq308q08&topic=2209.0
Well, Fotios surely based his work on other relating documents laying around at Zimmers (Funet) and other CBM archives:
[ 5]
http://www.zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/documents/cables/128-videocable.txt
[ 6] http://www.softwolves.pp.se/cbm/maskinvara/scart
[ 7] http://www.hardwarebook.info/C128_RGBI
[ 8] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_Graphics_Adapter
[ 9] http://nemesis.lonestar.org/reference/video/cga.html
[10] http://www.oldskool.org/pc/cgacal
There are two things with his work that I did not like much:
a) You had to solder wires directly to the board
b) To give a correct brown color, the IBM CGA palette
fix needs to be applied
So I started hacking around myself. I got a WEI-YA ACV-011 CGA-VGA board from a polish reseller. I got a power supply with 12V for the converter board and 5V for my own circuits. First I looked out to verify Fotios' results on a simple hack without applying the Intensity signal. This worked fine, but I only had 8 colors [11].
Another drawback is that you desperately need a LCD/TFT monitor that accepts a refresh rate of only 50Hz. My main monitor does not want to accepts the signal from the ACV-011, I had to use a TV-LCD. That one is a bit too small (640x480) to show the 80 column mode with good quality. Well, it seems I have to buy a cheap 800x600 monitor.
I started with buffering the incoming signals with a 74LS244, this is a bus driver IC with integrated Schmitt triggers, just the same IC that is used in the C128 as output driver. Each signal, R, G, B, I, V and H is buffered by one of the drivers and I could work with the refreshed signals from the output stages. To mix the analog RGB colors, I used the resistor networks as shown in [5] or a simplified version of [6]. Since I only had resistors of 390 Ohms and 820 Ohms I used these instead of 470 Ohms and 680 Ohms:
______
R/G/B --|______|----+ 390R
|
+------ R/G/B_analog
______ |
I --|______|----+ 820R
For each of the three color components such a resistor network was built.
Then I went further to do this IBM CGA palette color fix that turns dark-yellow into brown [8]. I got a 74LS138 binary decoder and watched for the "magic" combination 1,1,0,0 for R,G,B,I. Once this was detected, another 80 Ohms resistor applied to the output channel for Green was pulled to Low level, otherwise it was switched to High level. So the overall resistor network for the
Green channel becomes:
______
G (only)--|______|----+ 390R
|
+------ G_analog (only)
______ |
I --|______|----+ 820R
|
______ |
C-Fix --|______|----+ 820R
This then changed the colors into a palette that should look fine [12]. But there is a slight imbalance with this design. With the Green channel _two_ 820 Ohms resistors are pulling to High level most of the time while on the other two color channels only one resistor pulls to High. This can be fixed a bit by giving the Green channel a special adjust on the ACV-011 input stage [14].
See the overall schematics with reference [15].
I already thought about a further improved color fix circuit which does the fix truly digital and with only applying 6 resistors instead of the 7 shown above. But there you would need a programmable logic chip so that the whole circuit does not become too clumsy.
I like the current solution very much since it just looks fine and I did not need to solder around directly on the ACV-011 board. I just need to get a nice case and a suitable well sized TFT monitor.
Bye, Womo
References:
[11] http://d81.de/shared/C=128-VGA/C128-Palette-wo-Intensity.jpg
[12]
http://d81.de/shared/C=128-VGA/C128-RGBI-Palette-with-CGA-IBM-Colorfix.jpg
[13] http://d81.de/shared/C=128-VGA/CGA-IBM-Colorfix-RGBI-DAC.jpg
[14] http://d81.de/shared/C=128-VGA/ACV-011-Board.jpg
[15] http://d81.de/shared/C=128-VGA/C=128-VGA-IBM-Colorfix.png
Just before last Saturday's SC3 Arcade Party in Claremont, California, I met up with Charles Gutman of 8-Bit Designs and bought his Fotios' re-engineered RGB-to-VGA adapter. It came with the original manufacturer's not-so-helpful instruction sheet. Time to try it out with CRT VGA and LCD VGA monitors!
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/
Quote from: RobertB on October 03, 2008, 01:37 PMI met up with Charles Gutman of 8-Bit Designs and bought his Fotios' re-engineered RGB-to-VGA adapter.
Cool... I got to see that one in action. :)
I distinctly remember that there was a discussion regarding some existing products which handled this function.
-------------------------------------
Information on c= to vga methodology.-------------------------------------
http://home.comcast.net/~kkrausnick/c128-vga/c128-vga.html
-------------------------------------
CGA To VGA Converter (800 x 600)
http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/1488.html-------------------------------------
RTV VEG Family of Products
The VEG Lite is a compact external unit that easily turns a VGA monitor into a gaming center, giving you enhanced 1024x768 resolution for your game graphics without having to take over the family television.
The VEG Lite can be used as a stand-alone game center or linked through your desktop computer.
http://www.rtv-veg.com/products/veglite/
connectors
http://www.rtv-veg.com/products/specs.php?prod=vegn
thanks for the info Jakit!..havent played with my 128 in a while and hooking it up to an old vga monitor would be great...
Just an FYI that I got this to work, now that I finally got around to the final modification posted earlier. All colors display now!! I actually got one of these boards off of eBay for around $50. Another $10 in parts and viola. I was using a Veg Lite as indicated by an earlier poster but contiued to run into LCD scaling issues as my LCD was a 16:9 (off my Mac) so it didn't do a great job. The 80 col only runs perfectly crisp on 640X480 derivative LCDs', (such as 800x600, 1025X768, etc). the multiplier on my screen makes it less than square and therefore not perfect.
However, I've found that I can get perfect 40col output on a little Dynex 15" LCD TV, and the 80 col works pretty darn well. So for $160 it's a TV/Commie Screen 40/80 and I'm quite happy with the setup! :)
Thanks to Fotios for the "hack"!
PS, this lovely gem is making me smile now that I can run my 128 Telnet BBS in 80 col mode!!!
maraud.dynalias.com (port 6400)
Quote from: maraud on May 31, 2009, 03:05 PM
However, I've found that I can get perfect 40col output on a little Dynex 15" LCD TV, and the 80 col works pretty darn well. So for $160 it's a TV/Commie Screen 40/80 and I'm quite happy with the setup! :)
That's good to hear. I have the Fotios-modified 80-column adapter, but I have not tried it out with a LCD screen, due to the fact that not all LCD screens are compatible with it.
Back from Maker Faire,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
July 25-26 Commodore Vegas Expo - http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex
Wow, the parts for doing this are prohibitively expensive now, 141 for the cga to rbg converter? Has anyone come up with a solution that is less ridiculous? I ran into this when poking around: http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html but I suspect it would require a similar mod to make it work with the RGBI input.
No, the RGBI output on the 128 is exactly identical to the output on a CGA card; if that thing does what it's advertised to do, then it should be as simple as plugging the RGBI cable into the converter.
Quote from: Justin on July 16, 2009, 10:40 AM
Wow, the parts for doing this are prohibitively expensive now, 141 for the cga to rbg converter? Has anyone come up with a solution that is less ridiculous? I ran into this when poking around: http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html but I suspect it would require a similar mod to make it work with the RGBI input.
I tried one of those and the output was quite poor, granted I was trying it on an LCD but it was nearly illegible.