Quote from: Adoreware on February 11, 2009, 09:55 PM
A lot of people are asking for Expert cart, so I will go ahead and add this.  I'm watching EBay for one.

Cool Thanks - I'm looking forward for further project news. I belive what you really need is to look into Vice sources to see how it is emulated using crt file. This will provide info regarding used lines. Of course the "ESM" circurity is not emulated properly but as pointed earlier it's all about ACKing NMI.

Quote from: Alex on March 12, 2009, 08:19 AM

Quote from: Adoreware on February 11, 2009, 09:55 PM
A lot of people are asking for Expert cart, so I will go ahead and add this.  I'm watching EBay for one.

Cool Thanks - I'm looking forward for further project news. I belive what you really need is to look into Vice sources to see how it is emulated using crt file. This will provide info regarding used lines. Of course the "ESM" circurity is not emulated properly but as pointed earlier it's all about ACKing NMI.

I am still trying to get moved in so I can start back on this project.  I do indeed look at Vice source, but I first try to hardware emulate for 100% compatibility.  Vice mostly uses registers and this has draw backs but the source code dose help me a lot.  This biggest challenge with any cart is getting the ROM image and a schematic.  I usually purchase carts on EBay, but funds are tight right now.  I really need outside support getting ROMs, PC board scans, and schematics to make this work because I can't afford to buy every cartridge.

To update everyone, I have finished moving and will be starting back on the project this weekend.  I got lucky and found an Expert Cartridge on eBay last night.  It appears to be version 4.  I also got a Retro Replay Cart.  Because there has been so many requests to include the Expert Cart in the EC2, I will be moving in into the first round of supported cartridges. 

I will also be pulling out my C128 and will be looking at the internal ROM sockets and the schematics.  As long as the internal ROM sockets connect to the expansion port, I don't  see a problem emulating the ROMs.  I need to search for 128 schematics and look them over.  If anyone has them, please let me know or post a link.  Best I remember, the schematics are archived on zimmers.

From a birds eye view of the C128 schematics, it appears that Internal Function ROMs can be connected to the Expansion port without having to modify code.  Below are my initial observations...

Expansion port SA0-SA7 lines are tied to the internal Function ROM A0-A7 depending on the state of _DMA and _AEC.
Expansion port TA8-TA13 lines are tied to the internal Function ROM A8-A15 depending on the state of _DMA.
The internal Function ROM is enabled by the _FROMI line coming from the 8721 PLA and is done internally by the C128.
Expansion port D0-D7 are directly connected to the internal Function ROM's D0-D7.
Expansion port TA14 along with and TA13 (depending on the state of the DMA line) enables internal ROM1.

So basically, depending on the state of _DMA and _AEC, all data and address lines of the internal Function ROM tie to the Expansion port.

The only foreseeable issue is that EC2 hardware might have to monitor _DMA to know when to tie the EC2's D0-D7 and A0-A15 to the Expansion port.  I plan to burn one of the Function ROMs to an EPROM and install in the C128 first, then try moving it to the EC2.  This will be my first step in making the EC2 C128 compatible.  If one Internal ROM works, ALL of them will work.  As far as other carts, I will need to look at the schematic and have the ROM images.

Welcome back

I'm thrilled to hear that you are going to try and get the internal function ROM's of the C128 to work with the EC2 When an internal ROM is mapped into the memory map of the C128 at startup, it's automatically mapped into BANK 4 of the C128's memory bank. External function ROM's (i.e placed in the empty socket of a REU) as well as native C128 cartridges are mapped into BANK 8. Can you emulate this with the EC2 and make internal function ROMs appear in BANK 4 even though they are connected externally through the EC2?

Back in the days there was a German company called REX that made many different cartridges for the C64. I found four of them in my collection. Have you seen these before?


I have also created a website to collect most of the available information about the EC2. Please have a look here and tell me what you think. Everybody is invited of course If there is anything you don't want to see on that site, please let me know and I will remove it.

Quote from: SmallCleverDinosaur on March 29, 2009, 08:32 AM
Welcome back

I'm thrilled to hear that you are going to try and get the internal function ROM's of the C128 to work with the EC2 When an internal ROM is mapped into the memory map of the C128 at startup, it's automatically mapped into BANK 4 of the C128's memory bank. External function ROM's (i.e placed in the empty socket of a REU) as well as native C128 cartridges are mapped into BANK 8. Can you emulate this with the EC2 and make internal function ROMs appear in BANK 4 even though they are connected externally through the EC2?

Back in the days there was a German company called REX that made many different cartridges for the C64. I found four of them in my collection. Have you seen these before?

         

I have also created a website to collect most of the available information about the EC2. Please have a look here and tell me what you think. Everybody is invited of course If there is anything you don't want to see on that site, please let me know and I will remove it.

I'll be the first to say that I know very little about the C128 bank switching and ROM mapping hierarchy.  in fact, today was the first time I ever looked at the schematic.  My initial observations were posted before and I don't know at this time if the Function Rom slot can be mapped to the Expansion port for simply ONE reason and this is that the _AEC line is not available on the Expansion port.  This dosen't mean it can't be done.  I can say with almost certainty the it would be possible with a system ROM and PLA patch, but that would alter the C128.  With such a path, a standard cart could be made to house the internal Function ROM EPROM and no software patching would be necessary.  If you would like to start a separate project to explore this, let me know and I will gladly participate.  With all that said, I still believe it may be possible by watching the _DMA line on the Expansion port.

As far as carts designed to plug into the C128's expansion port or that use the REU socket, I see absolutely no reason why any cart would not work on the EC2.  In fact, the 3 of the 4 carts by REX you posted  (By the way, I have not seen these before except Slow-Down), can easily be built into the EC2 in C128 mode.  The only questionable one is the Slow-Down cart because it has an active component (the electrolytic capacitor).  This doesn't mean it won't work because I already designed a capacitor model in VHDL for EXPX Fastload which may be used.  The first step would be to reverse engineer the boards and read the ROM contents.

The web site you created looks very nice and is much appreciated.  Feel free to use anything from my website or newsgroups to keep it updated.  I already figured out how the Action Replay bank switches, so you can scratch that one off the list.  Also, the order of business changes from time to time, so keep an eye on PETSCII for updates.  I am bumping SuperCPU to the bottom of this list for now because this involves an entire core withing the EC2 and I don't even have the EC2's core finished.  I haven't updated Adoreware.com since the day I finished it.  I actually have the push button switches and SD Card Slot assembled and I'll try to post some photos.

Quote from: SmallCleverDinosaur on March 29, 2009, 08:32 AMBack in the days there was a German company called REX that made many different cartridges for the C64.

Hey, I have one or two of those (kindly presented to me at the Bunker Meeting in Bochum, Germany back in 2005).

                     Truly,
                     Robert Bernardo
                     Fresno Commodore User Group
                     http://videocam.net.au/fcug
                     Notacon 6 / Blockparty 3 on April 16-19
                     http://www.notacon.org , http://www.demoparty.us

Quote from: Adoreware on March 29, 2009, 09:43 AM
My initial observations were posted before and I don't know at this time if the Function Rom slot can be mapped to the Expansion port for simply ONE reason and this is that the _AEC line is not available on the Expansion port.

It should also be noted that the C128 does not map its internal or external ROMs into the memory map using hardware, which is the case of the C64. The C128 polls both the internal and external ROMs at startup do decide where it should be mapped. So fooling the C128 into believing that a ROM connected to the expansion port is actually placed in the internal ROM socket would be quite a trick. It'll be very interesting to see if you can manage that

Quote from: Adoreware on March 29, 2009, 09:43 AM
This dosen't mean it can't be done.  I can say with almost certainty the it would be possible with a system ROM and PLA patch, but that would alter the C128.  With such a path, a standard cart could be made to house the internal Function ROM EPROM and no software patching would be necessary.  If you would like to start a separate project to explore this, let me know and I will gladly participate.

I'm afraid I'm too little of a hardware guy for such a project

Quote from: Adoreware on March 29, 2009, 09:43 AM
As far as carts designed to plug into the C128's expansion port or that use the REU socket, I see absolutely no reason why any cart would not work on the EC2.

I agree completely, there should be no problem at all. Maybe I shouldn't have posted all these remarks in the same post, it might have gotten somewhat confusing I didn't mean that the REX cartridges should be made to work in C128 mode, I just wanted you to see them since you earlier have said that you want to incorporate every cartridge possible into the EC2. Are you interested in reverse engineering these?

Quote from: Adoreware on March 29, 2009, 09:43 AM
The web site you created looks very nice and is much appreciated.

I'm glad you like it If you'd like you can write about it in a post in the Petscii forum. Coming from you would make it a little more "official"

Quote from: Adoreware on March 29, 2009, 09:43 AM
I already figured out how the Action Replay bank switches, so you can scratch that one off the list.

Consider it scratched

Quote from: SmallCleverDinosaur on March 29, 2009, 06:08 PM

Quote from: Adoreware on March 29, 2009, 09:43 AM
My initial observations were posted before and I don't know at this time if the Function Rom slot can be mapped to the Expansion port for simply ONE reason and this is that the _AEC line is not available on the Expansion port.

It should also be noted that the C128 does not map its internal or external ROMs into the memory map using hardware, which is the case of the C64. The C128 polls both the internal and external ROMs at startup do decide where it should be mapped. So fooling the C128 into believing that a ROM connected to the expansion port is actually placed in the internal ROM socket would be quite a trick. It'll be very interesting to see if you can manage that

Quote from: Adoreware on March 29, 2009, 09:43 AM
This dosen't mean it can't be done.  I can say with almost certainty the it would be possible with a system ROM and PLA patch, but that would alter the C128.  With such a path, a standard cart could be made to house the internal Function ROM EPROM and no software patching would be necessary.  If you would like to start a separate project to explore this, let me know and I will gladly participate.

I'm afraid I'm too little of a hardware guy for such a project

Quote from: Adoreware on March 29, 2009, 09:43 AM
As far as carts designed to plug into the C128's expansion port or that use the REU socket, I see absolutely no reason why any cart would not work on the EC2.

I agree completely, there should be no problem at all. Maybe I shouldn't have posted all these remarks in the same post, it might have gotten somewhat confusing I didn't mean that the REX cartridges should be made to work in C128 mode, I just wanted you to see them since you earlier have said that you want to incorporate every cartridge possible into the EC2. Are you interested in reverse engineering these?

Quote
You didn't confuse me, I understood you were referring to the C64, and yes I would like very much to get those cartridges reverse engineered.

Quote from: Adoreware on March 29, 2009, 09:43 AM
The web site you created looks very nice and is much appreciated.

I'm glad you like it If you'd like you can write about it in a post in the Petscii forum. Coming from you would make it a little more "official"

Quote
I already have an "official" site at Adoreware.com, but feel free to post your site in PETSCII and I will happily acknowledge it.

Quote from: Adoreware on March 29, 2009, 09:43 AM
I already figured out how the Action Replay bank switches, so you can scratch that one off the list.

Consider it scratched

Quote
One more thing, can you please correct the spelling from "Extreme Cartridge II" to "Extreme Cartridge 2".

Quote from: Adoreware on March 29, 2009, 10:54 PM
You didn't confuse me, I understood you were referring to the C64, and yes I would like very much to get those cartridges reverse engineered.

How do we solve that then? Are pictures and ROM dumps enough or do you need them shipped to you?

Quote from: Adoreware on March 29, 2009, 10:54 PM
One more thing, can you please correct the spelling from "Extreme Cartridge II" to "Extreme Cartridge 2".

It has been corrected

Quote from: SmallCleverDinosaur on March 30, 2009, 04:24 AM

Quote from: Adoreware on March 29, 2009, 10:54 PM
You didn't confuse me, I understood you were referring to the C64, and yes I would like very much to get those cartridges reverse engineered.

How do we solve that then? Are pictures and ROM dumps enough or do you need them shipped to you?

Quote
Why don't you send me a PM to jreece@adoreware.com so we can discuss this. Pictures and ROM dumps are a good start, but some times an IC has to be removed to see under it and can damages the cartridge or chip so we should discuss that.

Quote from: Adoreware on March 29, 2009, 10:54 PM
One more thing, can you please correct the spelling from "Extreme Cartridge II" to "Extreme Cartridge 2".

It has been corrected

Quote
I meant to say "would you consider changing the name?". Forgive my inconsideration and thanks for changing it.

Quote from: Adoreware on March 30, 2009, 08:12 AM
Why don't you send me a PM to jreece@adoreware.com so we can discuss this. Pictures and ROM dumps are a good start, but some times an IC has to be removed to see under it and can damages the cartridge or chip so we should discuss that.

I sent you a mail, I hope it got through to you

I've found some more cartridges that might be interesting for the EC2 to emulate. I don't own these myself, I have only seen them on the internet. Have you seen these? Are any of them emulated?

I find Partner 128 to be useful, if just a bit underwhelming. It's nice to be able to type a note or pop up an on-screen calculator when you need it. It's the closest you'll ever come to multitasking on the C128.

Sweet I didn't even know what Partner 128 was. Do you know if there's ROM dump of it anywhere?

Does the cable connect to the joystick port? Do you know what's it for?

Quote from: SmallCleverDinosaur on April 01, 2009, 01:32 AMDoes the cable connect to the joystick port? Do you know what's it for?

Yes, the cable  plugs into the joystick port. I have no idea why. It might just be to make it harder to clone.

I don't know about a ROM image. I have the cart, and haven't opened it up, but I assume the ROM is soldered in, so I can't rip it with my EPROM burner. I also assume the standard ROM busters might not work, since it's a weird invasive cartridge, not the standard stuff.

Edit: There's a nice-looking one for sale on eBay right now for $20 + $5 shipping, if that helps at all.

I didn't find that one. Do you know which itemnumber it has? I only found the item number: 360127480326. But $50 is a little too much...

eBay number: 180335147949

Sorry. I had the number copied and I forgot to paste it. 

I've had a partner 128 for years and never used it. So I popped it open to see what's inside.

There is a 16K EPROM, an 8K Static RAM (no batt. Backup) and 9 logic chips. The joy port connection is just 1 wire, pin 3 of the nine pin connector. Pin 3 goes to col 2 (pin 18) of the keyboard connector.

If you want to look at the code in the EPROM, it's very easy. With the cartridge plugged in, go to the built in MONITOR, type M88000 and it will display the first part of the EPROM. If you want to save it to disk, type T88000 8BFFF 8000, then S"PARTNER128",8,8000,A000. You don't have to take the EPROM off the PC board.

It would be a tough board to reverse engineer. A lot of small traces and you would have to remove all the ICs'.

Dan...

Quote from: SmallCleverDinosaur on March 31, 2009, 11:32 PM

Quote from: Adoreware on March 30, 2009, 08:12 AM
Why don't you send me a PM to jreece@adoreware.com so we can discuss this. Pictures and ROM dumps are a good start, but some times an IC has to be removed to see under it and can damages the cartridge or chip so we should discuss that.

I sent you a mail, I hope it got through to you

I've found some more cartridges that might be interesting for the EC2 to emulate. I don't own these myself, I have only seen them on the internet. Have you seen these? Are any of them emulated?

         

Quote
I received your email and have responded.  I personally own the Magic Voice and know it has a custom voice chip and should be able to be emulated. The same goes from the Sound Expander.  The GEORAM and RAMLINK can be emulated for sure.  The Partner 128 can also be emulated but would also need the cable connected to the Joystick port.

Quote from: megabit on April 01, 2009, 07:44 AM

I've had a partner 128 for years and never used it. So I popped it open to see what's inside.

There is a 16K EPROM, an 8K Static RAM (no batt. Backup) and 9 logic chips. The joy port connection is just 1 wire, pin 3 of the nine pin connector. Pin 3 goes to col 2 (pin 18) of the keyboard connector.

If you want to look at the code in the EPROM, it's very easy. With the cartridge plugged in, go to the built in MONITOR, type M88000 and it will display the first part of the EPROM. If you want to save it to disk, type T88000 8BFFF 8000, then S"PARTNER128",8,8000,A000. You don't have to take the EPROM off the PC board.

It would be a tough board to reverse engineer. A lot of small traces and you would have to remove all the ICs'.

Dan...

Quote
I would be nice to have the ROM image, and a scan of the top and bottom of the PC board.

Quote from: SmallCleverDinosaur on April 01, 2009, 01:32 AMI didn't even know what Partner 128 was.

At last year's CommVEx, we had a Partner 64 as a door prize.

                 You enter CommVEx, and you might
                 win a door prize,
                 Robert Bernardo
                 Fresno Commodore User Group
                 http://videocam.net.au/fcug
                 CommVEx v5 info - http://www.commodore.ca/forum and click on ComVEX
                 or go to http://www.portcommodore.com/commvex

Thanks for the autopsy report, Dan. Yeah, I figured it was complex. I knew (but forgot to mention) that it had some scratchpad RAM in there, too. That's what it uses for taking notes, etc., without disturbing application memory. Interesting about the keyboard line from the joystick port. I can't imagine what that's for.

I am selling off a bunch of Commodore hardware.  See my stuff on E-Bay at

http://shop.ebay.com/jreece7744/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

I am still working on the EC2, so don't be worried that selling this stuff will stop me from completing it.  I still have at least one of everything I'm selling that I plan to keep.

Is it weird that I feel strangely attracted to the Tinkerbelle stuff in that auction? 

Quote from: airship on August 18, 2009, 02:43 AM
Is it weird that I feel strangely attracted to the Tinkerbelle stuff in that auction? 

This is off subject but I cant help but to share your sentiments.  I have a daughter and all that stuff was hers when she was a little girl.  Anyone who has a daughter can easily relate to what we are talking about.  My fondest memories are playing Tinkerbell (and Commodore  ) with her.  There is no shame in having a sensitive side.  She is now grown and I no longer have use for the stuff, so I might as well sale it.